AGM 154A question

[Furiz]

3 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Well the AF never really used the 154A either. They went balls deep on SDB's instead.

 

 

Those would be great, if the timeline checks;P

[WHOGX5]

2 hours ago, Furiz said:

 

Those would be great, if the timeline checks;P

Considering the state of fragmentation damage in DCS, I'd be surprised if SDB's could even kill infantry.

[Northstar98]

2 hours ago, Furiz said:

Those would be great, if the timeline checks;P

 

According to this SDBs came on M6.1, which is ~ 2011. This update also added AIM-120D, GBU-54 LJDAM and new IFF (though it's not like IFF is simulated with any fidelity in DCS).

 

If our F-16CM is supposed to be 2007, then we should have the M4.3 tape at most (though it only mentions JSOWS as being part of the M5.1 tape, circa ~2008, which also adds GBU-49/EGBU-12, as well as adding advanced SMS, joint mission planning system, more jam resistant and accurate GPS/INS system (not like GPS jamming is a thing though) and replacing whatever radio we have now with AN/ARC-210).

 

But yes, hopefully we'll get AGM-154A-1, though according to the C:MANO database, it's 2008.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Northstar98

[Furiz]

Was reading through that document, would be nice to know what tape are we at

 

If we have JSOW then we are probably on M5.1 tape.

 

Regarding radios, we have UHF AN/ARC-164 and VHF AN/ARC-222 a the moment in our Viper.

[Harlikwin]

9 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

 

According to this SDBs came on M6.1, which is ~ 2011. This update also added AIM-120D, GBU-54 LJDAM and new IFF (though it's not like IFF is simulated with any fidelity in DCS).

 

If our F-16CM is supposed to be 2007, then we should have the M4.3 tape at most (though it only mentions JSOWS as being part of the M5.1 tape, circa ~2008, which also adds GBU-49/EGBU-12, as well as adding advanced SMS, joint mission planning system, more jam resistant and accurate GPS/INS system (not like GPS jamming is a thing though) and replacing whatever radio we have now with AN/ARC-210).

 

But yes, hopefully we'll get AGM-154A-1, though according to the C:MANO database, it's 2008.

 

 

Yeah the AF never really used it though, foreign users did. 

[Northstar98]

On 6/29/2021 at 3:30 PM, Furiz said:

Was reading through that document, would be nice to know what tape are we at

 

If we have JSOW then we are probably on M5.1 tape.

 

Regarding radios, we have UHF AN/ARC-164 and VHF AN/ARC-222 a the moment in our Viper.

 

Cheers, I never knew which radios they were.

 

But in all honesty I doubt it would be that difficult to do an M5.1 F-16CM Block 50. The only real difference that applies at the moment is the inclusion of AGM-154A-1 and GBU-48/EGBU-12 (which can kinda be thought of as a GBU-54, just retaining the Paveway IIs bang-bang guidance using the laser), the existing model of the GBU-12 just needs slight modification and finally the AN/ARC-210.

 

I'm not sure what the L16 functionality refers to specifically, the JMPS is something ED would probably need to introduce an equivalent of for DCS-wide DTC implementation anyway so that's not really a factor.

 

We can't jam GPS as of yet, so that's not really a factor. Not sure how much more accurate the system is though. Not sure what the practicalities are of ASMS.

 

The AN/ARC-210 control head should be identical to the one being made for the A-10C II.

 

Even better IMO would be to have the M5 F-16CM as a separate variant, it's 99% copy and paste, aside from the things listed above.

[WHOGX5]

3 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Cheers, I never knew which radios they were.

 

But in all honesty I doubt it would be that difficult to do an M5.1 F-16CM Block 50. The only real difference that applies at the moment is the inclusion of AGM-154A-1 and GBU-48/EGBU-12 (which can kinda be thought of as a GBU-54, just retaining the Paveway IIs bang-bang guidance using the laser), the existing model of the GBU-12 just needs slight modification and finally the AN/ARC-210.

 

I'm not sure what the L16 functionality refers to specifically, the JMPS is something ED would probably need to introduce an equivalent of for DCS-wide DTC implementation anyway so that's not really a factor.

 

We can't jam GPS as of yet, so that's not really a factor. Not sure how much more accurate the system is though. Not sure what the practicalities are of ASMS.

 

The AN/ARC-210 control head should be identical to the one being made for the A-10C II.

 

Even better IMO would be to have the M5 F-16CM as a separate variant, it's 99% copy and paste, aside from the things listed above.

ED has said they're replacing the current VHF radio with the AN/ARC-210 so it should be on its way.

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, WHOGX5 said:

ED has said they're replacing the current VHF radio with the AN/ARC-210 so it should be on its way.

 

For the F-16CM? Do you have a source?

 

And if true, then yeah might as well do an M5 tape and bump the year to 2008, and then add the AGM-154A-1 and GBU-48/EGBU-12.

[WHOGX5]

38 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

For the F-16CM? Do you have a source?

 

And if true, then yeah might as well do an M5 tape and bump the year to 2008, and then add the AGM-154A-1 and GBU-48/EGBU-12.

I managed to find the post! If you go through that thread you can see some of the discussion about the AN/ARC-210.

There's also a thread regarding which tape of F-16CM-50 we have/are going to get but there was never a conclusive answer from ED. So at the moment it looks like we're getting some kind of M4.3-M5.1 hybrid. Here's the thread!

 

[Northstar98]

2 minutes ago, WHOGX5 said:

I managed to find the post! If you go through that thread you can see some of the discussion about the AN/ARC-210.

There's also a thread regarding which tape of F-16CM-50 we have/are going to get but there was never a conclusive answer from ED. So at the moment it looks like we're getting some kind of M4.3-M5.1 hybrid. Here's the thread!

 

 

Awesome, thank-you very much! 

[Furiz]

Thnx for the info,

 

Well lets see what will ED come up with, still no idea if AGM 154A-1 was used by USAF f-16.

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, Furiz said:

Thnx for the info,

 

Well lets see what will ED come up with, still no idea if AGM 154A-1 was used by USAF f-16.

 

Not really. It could be used but the AF didnt really buy the 154. The 154B failed because of lack of AF support. 

[WHOGX5]

53 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Not really. It could be used but the AF didnt really buy the 154. The 154B failed because of lack of AF support. 

Well, it wasn't really because of a lack of support from the USAF but rather that they experienced technical issues and cost overruns. Then, in the wake of the AGM-154B, the USAF funded development for the WCMD-ER CBU-115/B to do the same job as the AGM-154B, but that also had technical difficulties and on top of that the USAF budget was a bit tight those years so the WCMD-ER was canceled as well.

[Northstar98]

Well, I asked on YouTube about it and Wags said "That would not be accurate for a US 2007 Viper".

 

Even though, if we're supposedly getting AN/ARC-210, that puts us more towards a M5.1 F-16CM, rather than an M4.2/M4.3. And as such I would've thought that the AGM-154A-1 would've been included.

 

This depends on whether or not the AGM-154A-1 is actually present in the inventory for the USAF, and for the F-16CM (though I'd imagine if they have the A, they'd also have the A-1).

 

EDIT: According to one document I found online, production of the AGM-154A-1 was awarded in March 2006 as part of an FMS requirements for Turkey, which is the only reference I can find.

 

So maybe the A-1 isn't accurate for a US F-16CM Block 50.

 

EDIT 2: And neither is the GBU-49 AFAIK.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Northstar98

[Furiz]

Matt Wagner is talking on youtube rather than here on the official forums...

 

I see you pointed out that we will get 210 radio (M5.1 tape) then Matt said that they are gonna adjust radios later, so which radio, which tape do we have???

Istallation of AN/ARC-210 VHF radios to enable radio contact with FAC’s on the ground came with 5.1 tape

 

so if we are on 4.3 we don't get that radio, we also don't get JSOW, since the Integration of capability for stand-off weapons (AGM-154) happened in 5.1 tape.

 

Then if we are on 5.1 tape we are missing EGBU-12 from our planned systems:P

 

I found the same about 154A-1, maybe they have more info!

Edited July 10, 2021 by Furiz

[Northstar98]

1 hour ago, Furiz said:

Then if we are on 5.1 tape we are missing EGBU-12 from our planned systems:P

 

I found the same about 154A-1, maybe they have more info!

 

I'm fairly sure these are purely on exports, the only thing I can find on the 154A-1 is an FMS requirement for Turkey, the GBU-49/EGBU-12 (essentially a budget GBU-54) seems to only be on export stuff.

 

According to the C:MANO database (admittedly not the best source - but I'm really clutching at straws here), it's only present on Danish, Dutch and Portuguese F-16AMs and BMs, Greek and Moroccan F-16CM/DM Block 52+ (quite a bit different from our Block 50) and on Bahraini, Bulgarian, Greek, Moroccan, Slovakian and ROC F-16V Block 70/72.

[DAZnBLAST]

Can see the AIM-154C is the "Navy only" variant. Will we get the AGM-154B (BLU-108) variant for heavy armour, APC and Trucks? Did the Block 50 carry the AGM-154B?

[Northstar98]

37 minutes ago, DAZnBLAST said:

Can see the AIM-154C is the "Navy only" variant. Will we get the AGM-154B (BLU-108) variant for heavy armour, APC and Trucks? Did the Block 50 carry the AGM-154B?

 

We won't be seeing either.

 

In US service, the AGM-154C is USN only - never used on the USAF/ANG F-16CM that ours is supposed to represent.

 

The AGM-154B was cancelled - the USAF left the program and the USN decided against procuring the weapon - I doubt it was operational on anything.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Northstar98

[Sinclair_76]

22 minutes ago, DAZnBLAST said:

Can see the AIM-154C is the "Navy only" variant. Will we get the AGM-154B (BLU-108) variant for heavy armour, APC and Trucks? Did the Block 50 carry the AGM-154B?

Cancelled...

 

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/agm-154b.htm

 

so no...