[Opinion] Hear in Helmet audio balance

[Danny_P]

Hey,

 

So I've marked this thread with prefix of opinion, as well that's all it is  

 

Personally I feel that the cockpit sounds are a little unbalanced, and maybe it's something you guys could have a review of? This opinion is based on using the Hear Like In Helmet option enabled.

 

Main things for me that are a little unbalanced are:

The air conditioner

The clunk from the radar altimeter being unlocked

The radios max volume is a little low when comparing it to all other sounds

Jester Menu background noise

 

Now I fully understand that this is all very subjective and also hardware driven to a point. So as a note here is my audio hardware:
Headphones - Fostek M60rp

Dac - Mayflower Arc mk1

 

Once again, I would like this post to come across as more of a discussion rather than saying: "I think this, I want this changed."

 

[sLYFa]

Louder ECS pleaseee

[Cobra847]

We have no control over the sound mix when Hear like in Helmet is on. This is simply a lowpass filter applied by the DCS engine cutting out most of the high frequency sound.

[Danny_P]

2 minutes ago, Cobra847 said:

We have no control over the sound mix when Hear like in Helmet is on. This is simply a lowpass filter applied by the DCS engine cutting out most of the high frequency sound.

Well.... Shit. 

[btd]

The "Hear like in Helmet" option does not affect the sound balance in any way. It applies volume down and low pass filter to the entire audio mix. With the "Hear like in Helmet" option, the balanced mix will also be balanced

[Hiob]

The hear like in helmet option being a low-pass-filter and overall dampener makes totally sense -

but the ultimate conclusion should be, that the sound mix is not quite right in the first place.

 

I don't have any problem with the F-14 in particular but I'd wish the developers would take in to account, that we lack the haptic feedback and therefore need the audio clues to fly with the eyes out of the cockpit as supposed.

 

That means - make the sound more "unrealistic" to make the overall experience more "relalistic" if that makes sense.

Prominent example for me would be the afterburner detent. I'd really wish for an option to make it louder (not only in the Tomcat).

[btd]

Specially for it there is an option "Fake Afterburner" in sound options

So we should create then Fake Detent, Fake Moving, Fake Birds and so on? )))

 

[Hiob]

Some of your suggestions are helpful, some not.

I just expressed a wish not a complaint.

Most of the desired sounds are already there, they just lack volume in my humble opinion.

[draconus]

21 hours ago, Danny_P said:

Main things for me that are a little unbalanced are:

The air conditioner

The clunk from the radar altimeter being unlocked

The radios max volume is a little low when comparing it to all other sounds

Jester Menu background noise

Spot on... plus the loud switches and button presses, that shouldn't be heard with running engines and hissing ECS.

 

All that was discussed recently in another topic:

 

HB expressed themselves artistically here and catered towards playability on the sounds without much hope on changing that.

[Sacarino111]

HI.

My grain of sand... I like the "loud" sounds. I don't mind if it is realistic or not, but I like them, they give me some kind of feedback about " did my imput did something?", specially when on a HOTAS situation, where I don't want to take the eyes from my objective and look around the cockpit to assure the move, plus it is cool like hell (see the "sounds of freedom" youtube vide, I think it is from "Red Kite"...the master itself). I can understand that they might be somehow unbalanced, but they are great, at least to me. No need for change, please.

Saludos.

Saca111

[LanceCriminal86]

I think it would be interesting to take a look at ED's helmet filter itself, and see if there is any room for change/editing. The filter makes sense if you throw an actual flight helmet on sometime, it's close to having a set of shooting ear protection on. I think I've still seen a lot of pilots still wearing foam plugs underneath their helmets, which probably should be an indication of how loud it is in the cockpit. That said the filter would make the most sense if it only dampens the volume and tone of the actual cockpit environment but leaves ICS/radio untouched. I haven't used it in a while but that's how I'd figure it should be.

 

I think the challenge with mods for sound is that while you can change/edit the various sdef files, I'm unsure if you can necessarily ADD more sounds and features. Examples being creating more ECS sound layers and moving certain mixes to it (like the water glass chimes in the TF-30 sound, if accurate). Or, adding more fidelity to the internal or external engine sounds, such as tying in more samples at different RPM ranges and angles from the jet. One example would be adding some samples for the exterior of full mil right before the afterburners kick in and that sound overtakes the intake howl, or some more flyby sounds from different power settings. Or taking a page from racing sims, having separate samples that are used from the engine spooling up versus down on the RPM range. I honestly don't know if DCS even has the logic to cover those types of sound operations, or if that can even be done with mods as they would need to be tied to some specific conditions of the engine, ie a specific RPM range and something to say if the engine is increasing or decreasing RPM.

 

The other big problem here is sound samples themselves. I don't know if y'all noticed but there's not exactly a plethora of pure sound samples of Tomcat engines running that don't have 1) wind noise, 2) voices, or 3) were filmed on an 80s or 90s camcorder. At this point to get some honest to goodness Tomcat engine sounds you either have to go to Iran and get sound samples from their flightlines and hush house, or, find a working TF-30 somewhere and build a replica Tomcat intake to try and reproduce the right sound. I know there was more than one usage of the TF30 out there between the A-7 and F-111 but I suspect running TF-30s of any Tomcat type have been destroyed or in some way deactivated, even those on display. So any work trying to synthesize sounds for the Tomcat means a skilled sound engineer and probably some really good equipment and software, where you maybe only have a second or two sample that you need to work with and NOT have hard looping or harsh transitions from one effect to another. I will say the Hornet seems to have more varied sounds in its external sound model where it seems like they tried to get all of those elements together and allow the engine to handle/mix them. But the Tomcat just doesn't enjoy the same breadth of availability of high quality sound sources.

 

 

Here's a thought for some of you guys that don't like the big loud clicks: replace the sound with the thump when dropping ordnance, or when the gear locks. It gives you a little feedback that you flipped the switch but maybe is more, *immersive* as you probably aren't going to hear loud clicks and snaps even cold starting (because helmet is basically hearing protection).

[Danny_P]

12 hours ago, btd said:

The "Hear like in Helmet" option does not affect the sound balance in any way. It applies volume down and low pass filter to the entire audio mix. With the "Hear like in Helmet" option, the balanced mix will also be balanced

Ah okay, so basically the sounds that I feel are unbalanced would be so even with HLiH turned off - just everything is louder. I never fly with the option disabled, bar one time a few days ago where it nearly blew out my ear drums

 

Maybe 'balanced' is the wrong term, but I hope you guys get the idea... 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Danny_P

[draconus]

Problem is that radar altimeter knob sounds are in the wrong channel so the "Hear like in helmet" filter does not apply to them somehow. That way they stand out as very loud compared to other cockpit sounds - I tested it last night with the latest beta. It's probably in the headphones channel. So please, @Cobra847 , move the sounds onto the right tracks, make switches audio react to the appropriate DCS audio slider and most of the problems will be fixed.