J-7 is being replaced by J-16, this made easier for Deka if they want to create J-7G module.

[PLAAF]

Chinese Central government have decided to phase out all J-7s along with all other 2nd gen fighter and replace them with J-16.
The last few J-7 squadrons are flying their last sorties and the pilots are spending their time with their planes.
This means that Deka won't be invited to drink afternoon tea if they decide to make J-7G module or J-8E. This is certainly great news.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by PLAAF

[upyr1]

 The J-7 is a Chinese built MiG-21 and magnitude 3 already have a MiG-21 Bis. So I think it would make sense for the two of them to team up. I am sure that at least some of the information from the Bis would help with the J-7 since they are both Fishbed variants. 

[LowRider88]

On 2/5/2022 at 10:14 AM, upyr1 said:

 The J-7 is a Chinese built MiG-21 and magnitude 3 already have a MiG-21 Bis. So I think it would make sense for the two of them to team up. I am sure that at least some of the information from the Bis would help with the J-7 since they are both Fishbed variants. 

I suspect any collaboration would mostly benefit some aspects of the cockpit, and underlying 3D and code.

The Bis flys very differently from the MiG-21 F-13, that the J-7 is based.  And the later J-7 with double delta flies differently from the F-13.

Some experts compare the F-5E-1 to the MiG-21F-13, although I think this is partially true.  They may stalemate in a dogfight, but the F-5 is lighter and the F-13 has better T/W ratio, so it is like turn radius vs turn rate balancing out.  The Bis is a far worse turner than the F-13 since it is heavier, with more stuff crammed in.  The later J-7 should be a way better turn fighter than the F-5, sinc wit has both the double delta and the T/W.

So Magnitude may not really provide any thing useful for reuse in terms FM.

[PLAAF]

On 2/6/2022 at 2:14 AM, upyr1 said:

 The J-7 is a Chinese built MiG-21 and magnitude 3 already have a MiG-21 Bis. So I think it would make sense for the two of them to team up. I am sure that at least some of the information from the Bis would help with the J-7 since they are both Fishbed variants. 

 

8 minutes ago, LowRider88 said:

I suspect any collaboration would mostly benefit some aspects of the cockpit, and underlying 3D and code.

The Bis flys very differently from the MiG-21 F-13, that the J-7 is based.  And the later J-7 with double delta flies differently from the F-13.

Some experts compare the F-5E-1 to the MiG-21F-13, although I think this is partially true.  They may stalemate in a dogfight, but the F-5 is lighter and the F-13 has better T/W ratio, so it is like turn radius vs turn rate balancing out.  The Bis is a far worse turner than the F-13 since it is heavier, with more stuff crammed in.  The later J-7 should be a way better turn fighter than the F-5, sinc wit has both the double delta and the T/W.

So Magnitude may not really provide any thing useful for reuse in terms FM.

Yep, Most Chinese J-7 are double delta wing design. I am not aware of any non double delta wing J-7 that are still in service even 10 years ago.
By the way, my friend had written a list of J-7 before. Feel free to have a look

I may actually write a more detailed breakdown once I get some free time.

Edited February 10, 2022 by PLAAF

[LowRider88]

4 minutes ago, PLAAF said:

 

Yep, Most Chinese J-7 are double delta wing design. I am not aware of any non double delta wing J-7 that are still in service even 10 years ago.
By the way, my friend had written a list of J-7 before. Feel free to have a look

 

Thanks very much PLAAF.

I noticed your friend has not been online for some time.

I would like to be friends with both of you 

Great research guys 

[PLAAF]

24 minutes ago, LowRider88 said:

Thanks very much PLAAF.

I noticed your friend has not been online for some time.

I would like to be friends with both of you 

Great research guys 

Thanks. No problem. Glad I can be of help.

[WinterH]

Said that before, but I'd really love a late J-7 for its novelty alone

[upyr1]

46 minutes ago, LowRider88 said:

I suspect any collaboration would mostly benefit some aspects of the cockpit, and underlying 3D and code.

The Bis flys very differently from the MiG-21 F-13, that the J-7 is based.  And the later J-7 with double delta flies differently from the F-13.

Some experts compare the F-5E-1 to the MiG-21F-13, although I think this is partially true.  They may stalemate in a dogfight, but the F-5 is lighter and the F-13 has better T/W ratio, so it is like turn radius vs turn rate balancing out.  The Bis is a far worse turner than the F-13 since it is heavier, with more stuff crammed in.  The later J-7 should be a way better turn fighter than the F-5, sinc wit has both the double delta and the T/W.

So Magnitude may not really provide any thing useful for reuse in terms FM.

I know the weight would be different, but the real issue though is if it would be a simple matter of changing some variables or more complex?  I don't know the answer.  I do know that I would like to know what Deka has to say

51 minutes ago, PLAAF said:

 

Yep, Most Chinese J-7 are double delta wing design. I am not aware of any non double delta wing J-7 that are still in service even 10 years ago.
By the way, my friend had written a list of J-7 before. Feel free to have a look

I may actually write a more detailed breakdown once I get some free time.

 

thanks 

6 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Said that before, but I'd really love a late J-7 for its novelty alone

I'd like early and late models. 

[IcedVenom]

I'm glad others share my love for the double delta J-7

[LowRider88]

3 hours ago, upyr1 said:

I know the weight would be different, but the real issue though is if it would be a simple matter of changing some variables or more complex?  I don't know the answer.  I do know that I would like to know what Deka has to say

thanks 

I'd like early and late models. 

I think you got a response in your separate but similar thread.  Someone mentioned what I forgot which is that the double delta late version most likely has a modern cockpit, which would make copy and paste from Mag3 even less relevant than what I posted previously.

Me personally, I kinda like the idea that Deka takes on each module on its own and adds its own flavour to it.

[upyr1]

9 hours ago, LowRider88 said:

I think you got a response in your separate but similar thread.  Someone mentioned what I forgot which is that the double delta late version most likely has a modern cockpit, which would make copy and paste from Mag3 even less relevant than what I posted previously.

Me personally, I kinda like the idea that Deka takes on each module on its own and adds its own flavour to it.

I figured Deka would have to develop their own cockpit, the issue which I'd like to know more about is flight model, I would expect that would need to be altered. No matter what the case is, I figure I'd like at least two more fishbeds. The J-7E and an older one used in Vietnam 

 

 

[PLAAF]

4 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

The J-7E and an older one used in Vietnam 

J-7G would be a better choice since it is the best. The G series has also been exported to Tanzania, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. 
I also heard that there is a variant of J-7G that has a KLJ-6F radar with a range of 86km.

As for the older one. My vote is on J-7D or maybe J-7IIM.

[upyr1]

6 minutes ago, PLAAF said:

J-7G would be a better choice since it is the best. The G series has also been exported to Tanzania, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. 
I also heard that there is a variant of J-7G that has a KLJ-6F radar with a range of 86km.

As for the older one. My vote is on J-7D or maybe J-7IIM.

Why the D?

[PLAAF]

Just now, upyr1 said:

Why the D?

I will try to get a more detailed list of J-7 this weekend if I can squeeze some free time.   
Then you will understand and may even support me 
stay tuned

[upyr1]

3 minutes ago, PLAAF said:

I will try to get a more detailed list of J-7 this weekend if I can squeeze some free time.   
Then you will understand and may even support me 
stay tuned

The Fishbeds I want the most are the MiG-21PFL,  the F-13 and some big winged J-7. The PFL because that is what the North Vietnamese were flying and I think it would be a good match for the F-4E which we are getting. The F-13 as that is where the Chinese and Russian Fishbeds converge and some air guard variant with the double delta as those would be the least MiG-21 like.   

[PLAAF]

3 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

The Fishbeds I want the most are the MiG-21PFL,  the F-13 and some big winged J-7. The PFL because that is what the North Vietnamese were flying and I think it would be a good match for the F-4E which we are getting. The F-13 as that is where the Chinese and Russian Fishbeds converge and some air guard variant with the double delta as those would be the least MiG-21 like.   

I don't know much about the MiG-21PFL. All I know is that according to the Wikipedia, MiG-21 was developed in 3 stages. And MiG-21PFL is in the 2nd stage. I too love to see a variant of 2nd stage MiG-21 in DCS. But I prefer MiG-21PFM and MiG-21S.
Check out this cockpit of MiG-21S, it looks so cool.
 

[WinterH]

Personally, I'd just want a late J-7, purely from Deka themselves, with Chinese equivalent of Phytons and such, and those double delta wings with leading edge slats. Think they had some precision air to ground capability too at some point did they? In any case, that J-7 is really quite distinct from MiG-21 family at that point, so I personally don't think a joint venture with Mag3 would be all that useful.

As for an older MiG-21, I prefer to see a MiG-21F-13 myself. PF/PFM etc, the second gens I'm personally not interested in at all, to me they seem like the so-so middle child, despite knowing they were the main 21s for Vietnam conflict. F-13 too was in the 'Nam though, and I like it being the original 21, looking really sleek, has a lovely canopy by MiG-21 standards, an is famed to be the most maneuverable (which I actually kinda doubt a little myself). The second series MiG-21s seem to me like they don't have the lines, nice rear visibility, and famed agility of first series, yet neither have the payload, performance, and avionics of the 3rd series. So as aircraft I don't find them as interesting as the other ends of MiG-21 spectrum myself.

I'd actually also love a crazy modernized thing like LanceR, Bison etc, but I understand that wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea

In any case though, a late J-7 from Deka, and a MiG-21F13 from either them later, or from another dev.

[upyr1]

 

52 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Personally, I'd just want a late J-7, purely from Deka themselves, with Chinese equivalent of Phytons and such, and those double delta wings with leading edge slats. Think they had some precision air to ground capability too at some point did they? In any case, that J-7 is really quite distinct from MiG-21 family at that point, so I personally don't think a joint venture with Mag3 would be all that useful.

The late model J-7's had their NATO reporting name changed from Fishbed to Fishcan so a joint venture there might not make sense, though as I have never seen the code for a DCS flight model I don't know if they can change flight model parameters or if they have to build a new one.

52 minutes ago, WinterH said:

As for an older MiG-21, I prefer to see a MiG-21F-13 myself. PF/PFM etc, the second gens I'm personally not interested in at all, to me they seem like the so-so middle child, despite knowing they were the main 21s for Vietnam conflict. F-13 too was in the 'Nam though, and I like it being the original 21, looking really sleek, has a lovely canopy by MiG-21 standards, an is famed to be the most maneuverable (which I actually kinda doubt a little myself). The second series MiG-21s seem to me like they don't have the lines, nice rear visibility, and famed agility of first series, yet neither have the payload, performance, and avionics of the 3rd series. So as aircraft I don't find them as interesting as the other ends of MiG-21 spectrum myself.

I think the F-13 has to be done as well, the original J-7 was a MiG-21F-13

1 hour ago, PLAAF said:

I don't know much about the MiG-21PFL. All I know is that according to the Wikipedia, MiG-21 was developed in 3 stages. And MiG-21PFL is in the 2nd stage. I too love to see a variant of 2nd stage MiG-21 in DCS. But I prefer MiG-21PFM and MiG-21S.
Check out this cockpit of MiG-21S, it looks so cool.
 

I would like a second gen representing both Fishbed lines. I selected the PFL since it was the main opponent faced in Operation Bolo.  

 

52 minutes ago, WinterH said:

I'd actually also love a crazy modernized thing like LanceR, Bison etc, but I understand that wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea

In any case though, a late J-7 from Deka, and a MiG-21F13 from either them later, or from another dev.

I would actually like to see the Lancer or Bison as well especially if we get some Phantom 2K. 

[LowRider88]

I hope it would be F-13, J-7G.  Also want MiG-21MF, but that would best be done by Mag3 since it is similar to Bis.

F-13 because it is the most basic, and I like basic.  I agree with WinterH, it is the sleekest looking non J-7 variant.  Long, slim canopy with tapered nose.  Had something like a bubble canopy, and even though rear view was bad.  Also agree with WinterH, F-13 the most maneuverable, but only against non J-7 variants.  It started the hit and runs in 'nam.

Not so much of a fan of the middle PFs.  They looked ugly, with bulky nose and feminine waist.  Also had no guns.

The MF was cool because according to the book Clashes, it was historically the variant where VPAF aces turned off their radars and relied on low, slow stalking with camo, using eyeballs and GCI receiver only to look up and find F-4 smoke trails, before the hit and runs.  It's got the cred for being the mount of the pilots that reached that level of skill.

7 hours ago, WinterH said:

Personally, I'd just want a late J-7, purely from Deka themselves, with Chinese equivalent of Phytons and such, and those double delta wings with leading edge slats. Think they had some precision air to ground capability too at some point did they? In any case, that J-7 is really quite distinct from MiG-21 family at that point, so I personally don't think a joint venture with Mag3 would be all that useful.

As for an older MiG-21, I prefer to see a MiG-21F-13 myself. PF/PFM etc, the second gens I'm personally not interested in at all, to me they seem like the so-so middle child, despite knowing they were the main 21s for Vietnam conflict. F-13 too was in the 'Nam though, and I like it being the original 21, looking really sleek, has a lovely canopy by MiG-21 standards, an is famed to be the most maneuverable (which I actually kinda doubt a little myself). The second series MiG-21s seem to me like they don't have the lines, nice rear visibility, and famed agility of first series, yet neither have the payload, performance, and avionics of the 3rd series. So as aircraft I don't find them as interesting as the other ends of MiG-21 spectrum myself.

I'd actually also love a crazy modernized thing like LanceR, Bison etc, but I understand that wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea

In any case though, a late J-7 from Deka, and a MiG-21F13 from either them later, or from another dev.

 

[upyr1]

16 hours ago, LowRider88 said:

I hope it would be F-13, J-7G.  Also want MiG-21MF, but that would best be done by Mag3 since it is similar to Bis.

This is why I am asking Mag and Deka to team up. Obviously but I don't know how much overlap there is between the versions but since they are chasing after the same dollars I think it could be beneficial it is obviously up to them  

[PLAAF]

17 hours ago, LowRider88 said:

Not so much of a fan of the middle PFs.  They looked ugly, with bulky nose and feminine waist.  Also had no guns.

THat's why I suggested the MiG-21PFM and MiG-21S, those have gun.   

[LowRider88]

4 hours ago, PLAAF said:

THat's why I suggested the MiG-21PFM and MiG-21S, those have gun.   

That's a good point, PLAAF.  Although, I don't find much records of the S being in 'nam, but I may be wrong.  I prefer the MF over the PFM.  But I guess it depend which timeframe is targeted.  Would we want to play the Operation Bolo or Linebacker scenarios.

[LowRider88]

4 hours ago, upyr1 said:

This is why I am asking Mag and Deka to team up. Obviously but I don't know how much overlap there is between the versions but since they are chasing after the same dollars I think it could be beneficial it is obviously up to them  

I would imagine, F-13 and MF could be done by Mag3, and anythingthing modern J-7 would be best handled by Deka. That is where I believe the similarities could be grouped.  However the F-13 is maybe so simple, it could be cockpit and FM independent of the MF.  So maybe Deka could also do F-13 with out need for copy and paste from Bis.  I believe it is mainly the MF which benefits most from copy and paste from Bis.