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Choosing lower realism?


animaal
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Just looking to get people's thought on realism, and to see if I'm an outlier...

 

One of the strengths of DCS is the realism it reproduces. I like to keep flight models etc on high realism. But there are two particular areas where I sacrifice fidelity in order to make things easier jumping between modules.

 

1. Cockpit languages. I don't know if the KA50 was ever produced with an English cockpit but I fly with one. The MiG-21 might have been, but I'd imagine not a lot. I don't fly often enough to remember what all the switches do in all modules, so I tend to revert to English cockpits].

 

2. HOTAS controls. I keep controls consistent between my modules, rather than how each aircraft had its controls configured in reality. I'd never remember otherwise. So although it pains me, in the Hind I use the trigger for guns rather than to activate the microphone. Likewise, I always use the hat on the side of the stick for CMS, even though I know in the F/A-18 it's really used for weapon select (and I think sensor select in the Jeff?).

 

So for people with many modules, do you do similar? As the number of modules grows, it becomes more and more necessary for me.

 

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With regard to point 1... just think Dymo (I'm british so hope this translates)

 

I've sat in a lot of vehicles that have been "re-labelled", and some that just had sticky labels (prototypes).

 

I think other language labels are perfectly fine.

 

HOTAS... I did buy the F/A-18C grip for my WH and setup Hog and Hornet as close as they should be, however, after the Harrier and Spitfire I decided to have common commands for all aircraft (flaps, slats, lights, gear, etc). VR and muscle memory pretty much forced me to do it.

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I always set cockpit to English. I don't even really consider it less realistic, you'd expect the pilot to be able to read the labels.

 

On controls, I follow the real controls if my HOTAS matches (I have a TM Warthog do I use the actual A-10 and F-16 controls as much as possible). For other aircraft I approximate but I don't bother being 100% correct, because well you can't without the right hardware. If money and space were no object I'd have a cockpit built for each module around its own PC. But I don't see that happening any time soon.

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1. Yes, until I learn Cyrillic and Russian. French, Spanish and Swedish are easy.
2. No, I map everything according to the manual as close as I can get. Because that's easier for me to remember. Don't ever bother with toggles as well.

Will not call how you do it unrealistic though.
I use VoiceAttack for certain features. THAT'S unrealistic!
Use VAICOM for voice comms.

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No, everything short of perfect realism is a sacrilege.

I even punch myself in the face when I'm being hit, to feel the realistic pain....😅

 

(it's a joke! 😉, to answer your question - I try to map my hotas consistent between modules and don't bother with "realistic")

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Heh, interesting comments, thanks.

 

It's a good point that the countries using an aircraft will generally have the labels in their native language, so to do otherwise is putting ourselves at a disadvantage. I'll certainly feel less guilty about that.

 

And it looks like people are mixed on the question of HOTAS mappings. Vive la difference!

 

I'll draw the line though at inverting the throttle of the F-14 throttle to match Top Gun. 😀

 

 

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1. Even tho the Russian language in cockpits would be realistic, they are made in russian language cause they were made for russian pilots so they understand the writing in the cockpit, so using translation in the cockpit to english only enables you to understand what is written, the makers idea is preserved;P

 

2. I only use 2 full fidelity jets and I map according to their original mapping, it easier for me that way, I just pull the switch in my brain and set my muscle memory accordingly;P

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Well mapping everything realistically on my T16000M and TWCS is not even a fever dream so I keep it consistent between Modules. I'd do that anyway even if I had more buttons at my disposal because memorizing and stuff.

Same goes with the english cockpit. I neither speak russian or swedish nor can I read it. So unless the cockpit is nativley in english or german I'm going to switch it.

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Well mapping everything realistically on my T16000M and TWCS is not even a fever dream so I keep it consistent between Modules. I'd do that anyway even if I had more buttons at my disposal because memorizing and stuff.
Same goes with the english cockpit. I neither speak russian or swedish nor can I read it. So unless the cockpit is nativley in english or german I'm going to switch it.
Well the TWCS has like 85% commonality with the Hornet throttle.

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I switch Cyrillic cockpits to english. If an english speaking pilot is in a position to be flying and fighting in an aircraft, I would presume changing the labels to english would be an easy enough task for the armed forces in question. They did the same with captured soviet fighters by putting sticky labels all over the cockpit to help US pilots find their way around.

 

Regarding controls, I like to experience an aircraft the way it is designed, meaning if the HOTAS controls are clunky or amazing IRL, I want to experience and deal with that in the sim too. I bind things as close as possible on my stick/throttle to how it is in each aircraft, and I make diagrams of each binding for my records so I can refresh myself when changing aircraft.

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I absolutely use English cockpits. I don’t think this has anything to do with realism. But if someone wants to self restrict then go for it, though it’s not very realistic to fly an aircraft that you can’t read I don’t think.

 

i prefer to map controls as similar to the real controls as possible. They are usually very well designed and thought out as to the positioning

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On 7/1/2021 at 5:16 PM, animaal said:

1. Cockpit languages. I don't know if the KA50 was ever produced with an English cockpit but I fly with one.

  If you can't read the native language it's pretty much a necessity. I can stumble through Russian/Ukrainian, but still prefer English for ease of use.

 

On 7/1/2021 at 5:16 PM, animaal said:

2. HOTAS controls. I keep controls consistent between my modules, rather than how each aircraft had its controls configured in reality.

  Unless you're using a 1 to 1 scale replica pit of the aircraft you're flying you pretty much have to. There's too many differences between aircraft, and you're using generic controls. Logically, you should try to put similar controls on the same buttons for your own ease of use. 

 

  ''Realism'' is great as a goal, but certain realities have to be acknowledged and trying to pretend/force ''realism'' in an inherently unrealistic setup isn't even ''hardcore'' it's just dumb. Making good use of the interface options you have isn't unrealistic : real world pilots absolutely do the same.

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This is completely personal preference, the way I see it. 

 

Setting cockpit labels to something you can read only makes sense. As someone else said, you expect the pilot to be able to read the airplane. 

 

HOTAS bindings - I'm with you in that I like commonality. I also fly the Hornet almost exclusively, with an original Warthog grip (so the A-10 one).  Is it unrealistic?  Maybe if I'd previously flown a Hornet and had muscle memory of the control feel... but I haven't.  And I never will.  So... HOTAS feel has no bearing on realism at all, to me. 

 

It's also worth remembering that IRL, very few pilots are qualified in more than one aircraft at a time. They fly one thing at a time, with a full qual training cycle when switching fleets.  We don't do that, so controls commonality seems reasonable.  😉

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I use English cockpits as well.  I feel this is MORE realistic...  Because if I was Russian I'd be able to read the cockpits of the Russian planes...  If I was French I'd be able to read the French in the Mirage...  So...  Since I'm English I'll switch them to English so I can read the labels...  Just as the real pilot would be able to.

 

On the mappings...

 

I have some fairly "divergent" opinions on that.  I don't really think the USAF, USN or Russian military do it correctly.  Sorry :)...

 

I set all of the things that I likely won't need in combat (aside from launch/pickle/drop/fire etc, and a few other things like cage, NWS, G Override (and I f*****g use the S**T outta that...  BTW...  And I sleep like a log at night...), counter-measures on the STICK, and the controls I likely WILL need in combat (radar modes, TDC, weapon select, Trim for Shark etc...) on the throttle.

 

I do this so I can generally fly and deploy weapons with one hand, but operate the systems needed to get weapons on target with the other.  I learned this long ago in EF2000 with an F16 FLCS+TQS.  I feel it reduces work load to some extent but it might just be that because I started out this way using a stick and aircraft that weren't made for each other...  that I've just stuck with it and it's easier for me...

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I'm usually very keen on keeping things realistic/authentic, but I have to admit, that I do change the cockpit language to english for cockpits that are not in latin letters (russian or chinese cockpits). I keep it in native language if it is latin based (french in the M2000C or swedish in the Viggen).

 

In regards to HOTAS assignment, I try to keep a good balance between some consistency between modules and HOTAS replication as far as it is possible with my WH HOTAS, with a tendency towards replication. So I do use the trigger in the Hind for the radios and I do have the CMS switch on my stick mapped for weapon selection in the Hornet.

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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I have the luxury of being able to read and listen to Russian, so I keep the cockpit and comms native without subtitles but... I don't actually read any labels in the cockpit! If any - I do it going through manuals and cockpit images when learning. When I know the cockpit I don't need to read the labels anymore so I think it's a non issue. Same on the HUD - it's just a few symbols which you have to know the meaning of anyway.


Edited by draconus
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1 hour ago, draconus said:

I don't actually read any labels in the cockpit! If any - I do it going through manuals and cockpit images when learning. When I know the cockpit I don't need to read the labels anymore so I think it's a non issue. Same on the HUD - it's just a few symbols which you have to know the meaning of anyway.

 

If you know every warning on the warning panel in all those aircraft out of your head then you have my respect. My memory is not that great, so I need to be able to read those warnings. Same for all the ABRIS pages in the Ka-50. :book:


Edited by QuiGon
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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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24 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

If you know every warning on the warning panel in all those aircraft out of your head then you have my respect.

No, I don't have any russian full fidelity module but in the F-14 I don't even try to read them in VR - I mostly remember the placement and color - if the particular warning is new to me then I'm back to learning 🙂

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I have one stick w/ one grip that I am very happy with. I mainly fly the Hornet but it's not a Hornet replica grip so I map it somewhat realistically but don't care to be perfect. What would happen in another aircraft? It's not a replica of any specific plane so it will never be a perfect match for anything. I do map a hat switch to match a Hornet hat switch but it is not necessarily the same hat switch located at the same place on the grip.  

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On 7/2/2021 at 12:16 AM, animaal said:

Just looking to get people's thought on realism, and to see if I'm an outlier...

 

One of the strengths of DCS is the realism it reproduces. I like to keep flight models etc on high realism. But there are two particular areas where I sacrifice fidelity in order to make things easier jumping between modules.

 

1. Cockpit languages. I don't know if the KA50 was ever produced with an English cockpit but I fly with one. The MiG-21 might have been, but I'd imagine not a lot. I don't fly often enough to remember what all the switches do in all modules, so I tend to revert to English cockpits].

 

2. HOTAS controls. I keep controls consistent between my modules, rather than how each aircraft had its controls configured in reality. I'd never remember otherwise. So although it pains me, in the Hind I use the trigger for guns rather than to activate the microphone. Likewise, I always use the hat on the side of the stick for CMS, even though I know in the F/A-18 it's really used for weapon select (and I think sensor select in the Jeff?).

 

So for people with many modules, do you do similar? As the number of modules grows, it becomes more and more necessary for me.

 

 

 

If you want to talk total realism -  I don't know too many people who would be active in the Hind, KA50, F16, FA18, etc - flying aircraft with labels with different languages - switching back and forth between them on a daily (or hourly) basis. And if there are - my hat is off to them. 😉 The training and familiarization in reality for a single aircraft would be significant. As 'simmers' - most people don't have that luxury and need to compromise in order to enjoy the various modules. 

 

As a result - I'm very similar to you. HOTAS gets modified to function for my personal needs - and that normally means the same button for similar function between modules in a lot of cases. I make that compromise -as I do with English labels. The next person will be a perfectionist preferring an identical setup - and may have the extra time, patients, etc required, and I'm totally cool with that too. In the end - I am more for choice than conformity. Each person's abilities, capabilities and needs are unique from one to the next. The only reason I concern myself with what someone else does is whether what they're doing would work better for me than what I'm already setup. 

 

If I was to primarily fly one aircraft - things would change and I would set it up to mimick the realism - but as it is presently - I enjoy the ability to go between multiple aircraft - and with that - I need the system to conform to my needs to a certain extend. 🙂

 

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Actually, I'm one of those people who jump between aircraft, including Russian ones, on a whim. 🙂 It's just a matter of learning a single aircraft thoroughly (SP campaigns are great for this), one at a time, and then when you return it just comes back to you. Kind of like riding a bike, at least for me. Admittedly, labels in Russian would a problem if I couldn't read Cyrillic (then again, in VR it's hard to read the labels anyway).

 

That said, I probably wouldn't be able to recall all the emergency procedures, which is why it's not done that way IRL. That said, if things go south in a campaign enough times, you might have muscle memory for that as well... 🙂 

 

Of course, it helps if your main interest is in older aircraft. Jumping between the MiGs, F-14 and F-5 alone would be easier than switching back and forth between just Warthog and Hornet. The switchology on the older birds is fairly straightforward, and the "HOTAS" is usually minimal. Not so in the new birds.


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