Marianas real textures

[GEIST]

Loving the new map. Great addition to DCS and free - thank you for this ED!

Given the small size of the actual map I am just a bit disappointed in the textures. Things are in the right place but really quite rough when it comes to the terrain itself. Quite some differences compared to the real data - which is available and this took me 10mins. I realize making it work for the game engine is a bit more involved, but at ultra settings I was hoping for a bit more of the real thing (this is all settings at max compared to google earth overlayed in photoshop). The water seems to use the satellite data and looks really great, but that suddenly stops on the land and becomes rather simplified textures with a quite basic blending.

I know this map is free, so please understand this comes from a good place and I hope this will find it's way into the game in some form eventually.

Thank you!
 

Edited July 2, 2021 by GEIST

[diveplane]

lol what ones google earth?

 

[GEIST]

Interesting you say that. For me it's very clear what is what. It's particularly clear on the mountains where most of the terrain shape and texture variations are missing. Added a bit more hires version here:
 

Edited July 2, 2021 by GEIST

[ignition22]

I dont think we can expect perfection. I bet this is 100x better then if you compares caucuses between DCS and satellite which means things are steadily improving. I think the one of the standout things is that the houses and buildings in DCS need more definition or something. From distance they look like flat concrete pads like there was an earthquake and all the buildings have collapsed.

Overall  I think Marianas is great and a job well done.  

[orl_cz]

I think that an orthomap will not be ideal, if you fly helicopters or have a CA, ortho textures will never be at the same level as the actual textures. Ortomapa is only suitable for flying at high altitudes

[Northstar98]

To be honest this is a running theme in DCS.

 

The maps look fantastic, and have higher resolution and higher detail, but they seem to lose out on accuracy. Another thing that might be an issue is DCS seems to have a lot more trees when there should be undergrowth - think bushes, which might be skewing the colours more green, when IRL they're darker and in some cases brown.

[GEIST]

No, don't get me wrong the map does look great! It's a big step up but I guess what I am saying is I think there is room to improve it further and I don't think this needs to take forever. It's mainly the map base that I think could need some love. The things you're pointing out will definitely help but I think updating the base terrain doesn't need to be a crazy complex task either.
Threw this together today (Anatahan, another island a bit further north which didn't quite make it into the map) and I think with some dressing on top to make it work a bit more closeup that could be quite cool... and it feels maybe a bit more real.

Just hoping ED will push this further. Cheerio

 

[xoomigo]

IMHO, I honestly can't tell which is which. Seems like they were snapshots at different times.

[Northstar98]

2 hours ago, xoomigo said:

IMHO, I honestly can't tell which is which. Seems like they were snapshots at different times.

 

That's a common problem with satellite photos - you often run into areas that were photographed at different times and it's sometimes difficult to tell when different photos were taken.

 

Even so, the problem with the way DCS textures stuff, is it sometimes makes areas look more cartoon-y, I'm not saying they look bad, but they do look less accurate - the difference is immediately obvious when you look at real photographs or satellite photos.

 

 

[cellinsky]

DCS maps itself are great, I just wish they would use generic textures/tiles made from highres orthos (Some mods do). The way its now, it looks obvious hand-painted and gives it a cartoonish look. Dont get me wrong, its nice as is. Its just not on par with the other photorealistic stuff in game. 

[GEIST]

3 hours ago, cellinsky said:

DCS maps itself are great, I just wish they would use generic textures/tiles made from highres orthos (Some mods do). The way its now, it looks obvious hand-painted and gives it a cartoonish look. Dont get me wrong, its nice as is. Its just not on par with the other photorealistic stuff in game. 

I guess that's what I am getting at. The planes look incredible, with detail down to last detail based on scans and reference images - the maps however have a bit of a comical look to them and for some reason not using any sort of photoscan technology. I hope they can implement sth like (UE4) Nanite to allow for this on the tech side and just send a guy (or girl) with a camera to the places (like marianas) and rent a helicopter for 2-3 days. Get all the data you need to make a photoreal environment. There is just a bit of a discrepancy between the planes and the environments...

Edited July 3, 2021 by GEIST

[Northstar98]

9 hours ago, GEIST said:

I guess that's what I am getting at. The planes look incredible, with detail down to last detail based on scans and reference images - the maps however have a bit of a comical look to them and for some reason not using any sort of photoscan technology. I hope they can implement sth like (UE4) Nanite to allow for this on the tech side and just send a guy (or girl) with a camera to the places (like marianas) and rent a helicopter for 2-3 days. Get all the data you need to make a photoreal environment. There is just a bit of a discrepancy between the planes and the environments...

 

Yeah, that's one of the main issues I have with DCS maps, though it's more prevalent with some and not others.

 

In particular, if you look at Andersen AFB's smaller WSA (that's actually on the airbase, not talking about the gigantic one in between Andersen and North West Field), looks quite cartoony, and it's mostly the colour accuracy that's at fault here. 

[qvdg]

Although this map is a massive step forward it is now 2021 and high res Dem and satellite imagery is widely available. I hope the next step for ED is adopt these and move away from generic textures at least for the smaller maps. 

Cheers

[Cunctator]

Modern Ortho Images don't work for WW2 maps. Marianas will get a WW2 version "soon" and most likely started live as a WW2 map. 

[shu77]

I like what youre selling, I'd love to see the game offering this type of detail.

[Callsign112]

I think the new Marianas map is almost too good to be true. What I find especially amazing is the correctness of the detail.

 

For example, imagine if the Normandy map could be updated so that roads/bridges/landmarks were more accurately placed like on the new map, wouldn't it would be a huge improvement?

 

Image quality is probably something that could always be improved, but while the current quality of the new map is very decent, improper placement of map detail is the bigger immersion killer IMO. I am hoping that as DCS World continues to develop, all existing maps will be revisited for proper placement/addition of map detail. Whether flying over it, or driving up to it, it helps a lot if the key village and crossroads of the battle your trying to recreate are actually there.

[Northstar98]

On 8/21/2021 at 10:38 PM, Callsign112 said:

I think the new Marianas map is almost too good to be true. What I find especially amazing is the correctness of the detail.

 

For example, imagine if the Normandy map could be updated so that roads/bridges/landmarks were more accurately placed like on the new map, wouldn't it would be a huge improvement?

I kinda disagree

The map as it stands has a hell of a lot of issues with its geometry; often really glaring issues like roads going up sheer cliffs, and buildings sprawling out of landslides. There are other areas where the terrain is much more varied whereas IRL the same area is much more flat, which makes placing things like SAM sites down a royal pain. Then there's the fact there's very little bathymetry, especially when it comes to areas like Apra harbour (which reaches more than 30x more shallow than it is IRL), and Saipan channel, which should also be much more deep.

There are plenty of landmarks that don't exist on the Marianas map; power stations missing, a missing abandoned RADAR, missing pillboxes/bunkers and abandoned tanks.

On 8/21/2021 at 10:38 PM, Callsign112 said:

Image quality is probably something that could always be improved, but while the current quality of the new map is very decent, improper placement of map detail is the bigger immersion killer IMO.

Hmmm, apart from the missing stuff or stuff that's more blatantly incorrect, the detail of the map is excellent. But as far as the textures go, I find that low over the coastal areas look pretty bad, where there should be bathymetry and underwater rocks there's this low-resolution texture, and down low you can tell that instead of seeing bathymetry, we have a flat texture. These textures are basically perfect when flying high, but when flying low (like 100% of the time I've used a helicopter), it's fairly obvious.

The other main thing that I've noticed is that some of the golf courses have very angular bunkers, when it would be better to have these 3D, once again, flying low with a helicopter and this stuff is fairly obvious to see - and I'm playing on a 15.6" laptop.

If you look at Andersen AFB's WSA (which for some reason doesn't have the ammunition warehouse assigned to it), it looks very cartoony IMO, the storage bunkers themselves almost look mostly untextured.

Maybe I'm nitpicking here, but it's just some of the things I've noticed.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Northstar98
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[Callsign112]

@Northstar98, I don't think you are being nit-picky at all. Raising issues is almost the only way any community can get the developers of a product to at least take a look. But other than issues like roads going up cliffs and what not, my point was more wondering whether our expectations aren't asking too much.

 

I was commenting on the OP's request for improved textures, and my point being more directed at the type of things your are bringing up here, so I couldn't agree more with you. But look at the two images the OP posted that cycle over each other, the correct placement of detail at that distance/altitude is very good in my opinion. And when flying over the terrain at low altitude, the textures are very decent over most areas. There may be areas that still require work, and according to ED's announcement the map will continue to be optimized, but I think the map does live up to ED's stated expectations.

 

"What is DCS: Marianas?

The DCS: Marianas map is a map of said island chain in the South Pacific. This is our second FREE map, following the recently updated Caucasus map. We have added entirely new environment to fly in, unlike anything seen before in DCS World..."

 

"What kind of quality can I expect from a free map?

Currently, this map is the most detailed and complex DCS World map to-date. This is a huge leap ahead from the Caucasus Map, and as with all of our maps, every new release pushes the boundaries..."

 

I really enjoy all of the maps in DCS World, especially the Normandy map. But IMO, a map needs to consider at least two main issues, deliver the best textures it possibly can without affecting performance, and as they relate to DCS World, be historically accurate to the time period being represented. I think ED has made improvements on both fronts with the Marianas map. If ED is convinced that it has eked out the highest textured map possible at this point in map development, then the bigger issue is accuracy. One type of optimization might be to reduce the number of objects on the map in areas where they don't actually exist, but landmarks like power station chimneys, iconic buildings, or things like the Bird Island Marine Sanctuary are important to the simulation.

 

My hope is that we see more attention to detail on all the maps. But I think ED has done an amazing job with their new map, and after all the obvious geometry/optimization issues get work out, it is likely to be one of the best maps in DCS World for some time.

[GEIST]

I've been playing around with the integration of a few "Environment Assets" to see how DCS will handle it. There are a few issues, but overall it does work quite well and performance is holding up okay too. To be fair this thing here is not meant for closeup flyovers and you can't place any units on it but from a distance it does add a bit of realism I think.

It's a fun excercise and I'll prop this up a bit more and work on a better integration if anyone's interested in the northern islands.
This is Anatahan.

[Northstar98]

It looks awesome @GEIST! It certainly looks a lot more natural.

If there was a way to increase the resolution when flying close without negatively impacting performance, it would be perfect.

I'm guessing with units, it's related to unit placement restrictions and the ME not treating the island as if it was actually there, if that makes sense.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Northstar98
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[GEIST]

Yeah, absolutely. I need to find out if it's possible to instance within an .edm file. If yes, then there wouldn't be an issue to put foliage and fine detail all over the island to make it hold up a bit better in closeups. Just starting to look into all that stuff.

Down the line it would be nice to make a photobased town for the helichoppers. Could look cool I think, but would probably would only work on a 3090

[GEIST]

Inegrated it a bit better. Still looking into the foliage thing atm

[GEIST]

No luck with the foliage unfortunately without the map editor. I'll probably make 2/3 versions with different resolutions so it works on various spec machines... hopefully I can share it very soon.





 

[Tomcat-Flyer]

Your work looks gorgeous so far!

How is your work progressing? I am curious about a release. ;)

[GEIST]

I haven't had much time recently, and we now have the island as part of the map. I need to adjust it so it can sit "on top" of the existing island. Made some progress but still some tweaks to make before I can release it. Will update here once that's complete:

Edited March 10, 2023 by GEIST