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Slow Down tutorial request please.


Stratos

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I'm having issues when trying to slow down the Hind, I usually find myself getting way to high or entering a VRS, so can someone please make a small video explaining how to slow down it from fast level flight (280 Km/H) to touch down WITHOUT gaining too much height? Will really apreciatte it.

 

Thanks a lot!

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

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22 minutes ago, Stratos said:

I'm having issues when trying to slow down the Hind, I usually find myself getting way to high or entering a VRS, so can someone please make a small video explaining how to slow down it from fast level flight (280 Km/H) to touch down WITHOUT gaining too much height? Will really apreciatte it.

 

Thanks a lot!

 

I too find this to be about the most difficult thing in the Hind.

 

I either tend to overshoot my landing zone, or end up in ascending/descending while fighting against vrs.

 

@Stratos, I doubt though, that watching a tutorial video will help much (I know it won't for me). I mean, you know the theory, gradually slow down while increasing collective and constantly adjust rudder input just enough to stay in straight and level flight. It'll just come down to training (mainly training your muscle memory)


Edited by sirrah

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the Hind has a very slow rate of deceleration so a high nose pitch attitude is required which in turns causes you to lose sight of the horizon making it tough to judge your necessary pedal inputs.

 

You can try to raise your pilots head position a bit to help, otherwise bleeding off speed early is the best procedure. Another technique is to add collective aggressively when you see the descent rate increasing to stay ahead of VRS or just the large sink rate you might get if trying to do this at the last minute.

 

In the end it's all about practice, at least until they change the flight dynamics again 🙂

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Raise base of pilot sight just above horizont and maintain altitude with collective. This will give you nice, slow and  steady reduction of speed. Like monkie said, do it early. Problem with Hind is that it flies nose low, so we can't use that as a reference. Once you get down to 120 kph, start adding collective to spool up engines. Once down to 80 kph, add more and keep adding it. I can't give you advice how much or how fast to add, because that will depend on your weight and rate of speed reduction. Practice will get you there

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that video would be better if you had the control positions showing so people can see how you have to work the controls in unison to achieve that.

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2 hours ago, terence44 said:

Personally I make tight turns which allows me to cut my speed almost instantaneously. Much like in this video at 6:31 minutes

 

 

 

A circuit like that is fine, until you lose an engine during the decel at low altitude.  Fine in DCS, but in real life, that kind of hot dogging would get you kicked out of flight school, at least in the US.  On the line, though, depends on the commander...


Edited by heloguy
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approach  left or right of your landing spot with the intention of overshooting, if you know where the wind is coming from make that your final heading to land. basically circle around until you're slow enough to make the final approach. It also make it interesting compare to very long and slow decent straight to your landing spot.  

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12 hours ago, Stratos said:

I'm having issues when trying to slow down the Hind, I usually find myself getting way to high or entering a VRS, so can someone please make a small video explaining how to slow down it from fast level flight (280 Km/H) to touch down WITHOUT gaining too much height? Will really apreciatte it.

 

Thanks a lot!

Maybe my videos can help you. You should watch them, also the referenced video by casmo. Also my practice mission can help you.


Edited by nazradu
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My best results in slowing down are to lower the collective and pull te nose up gently while staying at the same altitude. When you get around 50 to 80km/h you have to watch out for VRS and put more power in because of the lower engine rpm

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2 hours ago, heloguy said:

  

 

A circuit like that is fine, until you lose an engine during the decel at low altitude.  Fine in DCS, but in real life, that kind of hot dogging would get you kicked out of flight school, at least in the US.  On the line, though, depends on the commander...

 

 

Surprising, I have already seen several European crews practicing this kind of landing, noting during interpellations for to stop a moving vehicle

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7 hours ago, terence44 said:

 

Surprising, I have already seen several European crews practicing this kind of landing, noting during interpellations for to stop a moving vehicle

If it’s for vehicle interdiction, then that’s a mission task, and a commander has probably blessed off on its conduct and accepted the risk.   That doesn’t mean it becomes the norm for regular approaches to landing.

 

I guess, all I’m saying is that there’s a time and place.  I was speaking as though this were a normal approach and landing sequence.

 

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11 hours ago, nazradu said:

Maybe my videos can help you. You should watch them, also the referenced video by casmo. Also my practice mission can help you.

 

I feel the Trim very strange with annoying control "jumps" when you trim or untrim. For example I enter a stable flight, push the trim and the ciclic jumps and put me in a strange situation. What Im doing wrong?

21 hours ago, admiki said:

Raise base of pilot sight just above horizont and maintain altitude with collective. This will give you nice, slow and  steady reduction of speed. Like monkie said, do it early. Problem with Hind is that it flies nose low, so we can't use that as a reference. Once you get down to 120 kph, start adding collective to spool up engines. Once down to 80 kph, add more and keep adding it. I can't give you advice how much or how fast to add, because that will depend on your weight and rate of speed reduction. Practice will get you there

That helped, I can slow down and make rolling landings most of the time, I still get the occasional VRS, still dont manage how to avoid them.

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8 hours ago, vsTerminus said:

I've been working on a tutorial for exactly this in the Mi-8. Not everything will transfer to the Hind but it will probably help. It's the number one thing people tell me they struggle with.
-

I guess you should point out the lack of optical and auditiv feedback in the transition in other words the shaking wich imo is lacking due to EA status and might be implemented later on.

 

To the OP: Slow down by instruments. Reduce collective, raise your nose just so high that VVI stays at 0. Try not to exceed 20 degrees pitch attitude. When at 20 degrees VVI goes down add collective gently and maintaine alt. Watch speed. At 100kph be aware to bring in even more collective as loss of TL is close.

As you have to do that by instruments until visual and auditive clues are implemented or you can do it by muscle memory it is not a good technique for areas where you have to worry about manpads and such, as you loose SA.

Be patient. Just because a heli can go in any direction it's not a space shuttle and it will take time to slow down.


Edited by nazradu
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1 minute ago, Stratos said:

I feel the Trim very strange with annoying control "jumps" when you trim or untrim. For example I enter a stable flight, push the trim and the ciclic jumps and put me in a strange situation. What Im doing wrong?

 

Might be you, by accident double tab the trim button wich will then reset the trim.

2 minutes ago, Stratos said:

 

That helped, I can slow down and make rolling landings most of the time, I still get the occasional VRS, still dont manage how to avoid them.

Nice. For preventing from VRS See my post above.

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16 hours ago, Stratos said:

Holy crap, now that's flying!

It may look cool at first but it isn't. It's actually highly unprofessional. IRL this dude wouldn't have a chance in case of sudden engine failure, LRE, or anything else.

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1 hour ago, Stratos said:

I feel the Trim very strange with annoying control "jumps" when you trim or untrim. For example I enter a stable flight, push the trim and the ciclic jumps and put me in a strange situation. What Im doing wrong?

 

 

Nothing - the trimmer system at the moment is bugged and inputs additional cyclic after you have hit the trimmer button. Major PITA in this type of heli that relies on constant trimming, but that is what we have got at the moment unfortunately. You just need to work around it. 

Always happens badly while I am slowing down - set a nice nose-up attitude descending at around 3m/s on approach and hit trimmer button to get stick out of my guts....nose jumps up another 5-10 degrees 🙄. So then jam the nose fwd and hit it again. Trying to 'anticipate' by releasing the stick a little then trimming, knowing it will jump back to 'kinda' where it was.

 

But yea much like the Hip, the Hind requires a little planning if you want to do a smooth 'controlled' approach. You will find the Hind takes a while to slow from high speed, but once you start getting down to <150 kmh with the gear out it will slow down faster at the same pitch angle for that final landing settle. Just always be feeding in a little collective as you get below 100 along with right pedal, and as you approach 50 you will need a bunch of power and pedal to avoid VRS - don't wait for the vertical speed to start racing away, anticipate the loss of lift with collective, especially as you go through ETL. But with rolling landing into wind you may not even go through ETL and will have a nice easy let-down at 50ish kmh.

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So the Trim thingie is a bug? Is really killing me, is very hard to counter.

1 hour ago, VampireNZ said:

 

Nothing - the trimmer system at the moment is bugged and inputs additional cyclic after you have hit the trimmer button. Major PITA in this type of heli that relies on constant trimming, but that is what we have got at the moment unfortunately. You just need to work around it. 

Always happens badly while I am slowing down - set a nice nose-up attitude descending at around 3m/s on approach and hit trimmer button to get stick out of my guts....nose jumps up another 5-10 degrees 🙄. So then jam the nose fwd and hit it again. Trying to 'anticipate' by releasing the stick a little then trimming, knowing it will jump back to 'kinda' where it was.

 

But yea much like the Hip, the Hind requires a little planning if you want to do a smooth 'controlled' approach. You will find the Hind takes a while to slow from high speed, but once you start getting down to <150 kmh with the gear out it will slow down faster at the same pitch angle for that final landing settle. Just always be feeding in a little collective as you get below 100 along with right pedal, and as you approach 50 you will need a bunch of power and pedal to avoid VRS - don't wait for the vertical speed to start racing away, anticipate the loss of lift with collective, especially as you go through ETL. But with rolling landing into wind you may not even go through ETL and will have a nice easy let-down at 50ish kmh.

I start to understand, what I feel the rudder is not very effective in the Hind or Im doing something wrong. Add the trim problem and Im flying all around like Im riding a drunken camel.

I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai!

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1 hour ago, VampireNZ said:

 

Nothing - the trimmer system at the moment is bugged and inputs additional cyclic after you have hit the trimmer button. Major PITA in this type of heli that relies on constant trimming, but that is what we have got at the moment unfortunately. You just need to work around it. 

Always happens badly while I am slowing down - set a nice nose-up attitude descending at around 3m/s on approach and hit trimmer button to get stick out of my guts....nose jumps up another 5-10 degrees 🙄. So then jam the nose fwd and hit it again. Trying to 'anticipate' by releasing the stick a little then trimming, knowing it will jump back to 'kinda' where it was.

 

But yea much like the Hip, the Hind requires a little planning if you want to do a smooth 'controlled' approach. You will find the Hind takes a while to slow from high speed, but once you start getting down to <150 kmh with the gear out it will slow down faster at the same pitch angle for that final landing settle. Just always be feeding in a little collective as you get below 100 along with right pedal, and as you approach 50 you will need a bunch of power and pedal to avoid VRS - don't wait for the vertical speed to start racing away, anticipate the loss of lift with collective, especially as you go through ETL. But with rolling landing into wind you may not even go through ETL and will have a nice easy let-down at 50ish kmh.

And i thought i am too stupid for pushing one button.

 

Strangly i watched one or two tutorials where the button worked just fine.I hope this is allready reported to the devs.

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On 7/4/2021 at 4:04 PM, terence44 said:

Personally I make tight turns which allows me to cut my speed almost instantaneously. Much like in this video at 6:31 minutes

 

 

I agree, if a slow approach is not possible or just boring then I treat the Hind like a WWII plane and use a turn or orbit of the airfield to bleed off speed.

The rising nose just aids the turn when collective is dropped and re-trimming for a slower speed.


Edited by Rogue Trooper

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