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Unable to move camera position up in Spitfire only


Alphazulu

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I wondering why the Spitfire is the only WW2 bird that is now very limited in the vertical movement of the cockpit camera?

 

It's really frustrating because the Spitfire is probably the only one off these WW2 birds that you really need to be up high to see over the nose when trying to take shots, especially deflection shots. Now your ability to move the camera up is so limited, that when turning at all, I can't even see my tracers converge, when I use to be able to see them converge before this change was made. From a visual perspective, looking at the cockpit shows plenty of room between the pilots head and the canopy's top to move your head up into. On the other hand the 109 pilot's head is almost against the top glass from a default position yet, you can still move the camera position way up.

 

In the 109, 190 A&D and the P-51, I can move the camera in the cockpit way up to help see. But now, the Spitfire which is the only one that really needs it, can no longer do it. If the canopy is open the camera will move way up like it always use to, but when you close the canopy it forces the camera way down almost to the default position. Again, this doesn't happen in any other birds.

 

It would be great if you guys could simply revert this back to the way it was please. I can't find any reason why this is limited to only the Spitfire.

 

Attached are some shots of the default position and then the camera moved all the way up to the max that it will allow. I have only put 2 planes because of the 5MB upload limit, but I have screen shots that show it the same for all these WW2 planes.

 

Thanks!

1Spit-Default position..png

2Spit-Max adjustment up.png

109-default position.png

109-Max up adjustment.png


Edited by Alphazulu
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, I use TrackiR. However, this movement is not linked to that at all. I test it with the head tracking paused and use the "cockpit camera move up" and "cockpit camera move down" keys. These keys work to move the camera in the Spit and all other birds. The only difference is, the spit gets very limited with the cockpit closed and all the other planes do not. I can move the Spit camera up to the desired position that I'm use to using as long as the canopy is open. As soon as I close the canopy is forces the camera way back down just above the default starting position of the camera. When I come into land I open the canopy, my camera position immediately moves back up to the position I had set before closing the canopy after takeoff. 

 

Thanks


Edited by Alphazulu
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  • 1 month later...

I just tried this. Not sure it's anything to do with the canopy per se. For me, the camera-up command just does nothing. Even if I move the camera all the way down to the control sick, it's not possible to move it up again. If I press the camera up key bind while I'm in the options/controls menu, it instantly jumps to the correct line in the controls (so it is properly bound), but while in the game/cockpit, it does nothing. In all my other planes it works as expected. Definitely seems like it might be a bug with the Spitfire, but maybe different than what OP is describing.


Edited by Sandmonkee

"...I just wanna fly; put your arms around me baby, put your arms around me baby" - Sugar Ray

RTX 3090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, MSI MPG B550 Gaming mobo, 64 GB DDR4 RAM, 970 EVO Plus NVMe M.2 SSD 2TB game install drive, Oculus Quest Pro via link cable, Standalone DCS beta.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/9/2021 at 4:51 AM, Sandmonkee said:

I just tried this. Not sure it's anything to do with the canopy per se. For me, the camera-up command just does nothing. Even if I move the camera all the way down to the control sick, it's not possible to move it up again. If I press the camera up key bind while I'm in the options/controls menu, it instantly jumps to the correct line in the controls (so it is properly bound), but while in the game/cockpit, it does nothing. In all my other planes it works as expected. Definitely seems like it might be a bug with the Spitfire, but maybe different than what OP is describing.

 

Well every time I take off and land in the Spit, I simply open the canopy and my pilot's head pops all the way back up to where I set it to before the canopy was closed. Then the piper only shows the bottom half of the circle on the glass and I can see much better around the aircraft. If I don't close the canopy I can move the camera position up as high as all the other aircraft in DCS. Did you try it with the canopy open?


Edited by Alphazulu
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On 9/18/2021 at 3:08 PM, Alphazulu said:

Well every time I take off and land in the Spit, I simply open the canopy and my pilot's head pops all the way back up to where I set it to before the canopy was closed. Then the piper only shows the bottom half of the circle on the glass and I can see much better around the aircraft. If I don't close the canopy I can move the camera position up as high as all the other aircraft in DCS. Did you try it with the canopy open?

 

I tried it with canopy open as you suggested, and you're right! With the canopy open, I can move the camera up, but with it closed, it will only go down, regardless of position. So maybe a bug after all! 

"...I just wanna fly; put your arms around me baby, put your arms around me baby" - Sugar Ray

RTX 3090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, MSI MPG B550 Gaming mobo, 64 GB DDR4 RAM, 970 EVO Plus NVMe M.2 SSD 2TB game install drive, Oculus Quest Pro via link cable, Standalone DCS beta.

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On 9/19/2021 at 3:06 PM, Sandmonkee said:

I tried it with canopy open as you suggested, and you're right! With the canopy open, I can move the camera up, but with it closed, it will only go down, regardless of position. So maybe a bug after all! 

I'm not sure why you are having the issue with it not moving up "at all". My controls to move the camera up and down both work. However, when the canopy is closed, the amount of space you are allowed to move the camera up is almost none existent. It can only be moved up a tiny bit from the default position it start at. With the Spit canopy open I can move it way up just like all the other cameras in all the other planes but the other planes work with the canopy closed as well.

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/22/2021 at 1:17 PM, NineLine said:

I'll take a look, do you use any sort of head tracking?

Is there any update on this? It's such a simple fix and clearly different than all the other planes. It's been this way for so long now and this bug report has been sitting for over 3 months now. 

I'm forced to open my canopy during turn fights just to be able to see my rounds converge and put rounds are the enemy that is constantly under my nose.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Tanuki44 said:

This does not seem abnormal, closed canopy there is no space to mount the head...

 

cockpit.png

Oh here we go again, this is what always annoys me about reporting development bugs on this forum.  Every time I report a bug you always get someone that turns into into an opinion based conversation. This is not how software development is done. You don't have unexplained changes and then poll people for their personal opinion.

But if we are going to play that game......First off, there is room there and second that is no different than the other WW2 birds in DCS yet all those cameras can move up. 3rd, the spit's camera use to move up and then was changed but all the rest were left the same. 4th, if you are going to make a change based on room, why is it only done for a single plane? And 5th....see images. Default head position, then max movement up, then 109 pilot in default position from outside. Now that is what you call no room to move up.

 

109-default position.png

109-Max up adjustment.png

Screen_210704_173644.png


Edited by Alphazulu
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Because you don't like the way it works, it's a bug...

Maybe just the Spitfire modeling is more realistic than other planes, indeed in the P51-D the displacement is identical open or closed canopy, that's not why it's consistent.

Mounting the camera until your eyes are almost level with the rearview mirror seems unrealistic with the canopy closed.

But this is just my opinion and I didn't understand your explanation...

 

 

 


Edited by Tanuki44
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5 hours ago, Tanuki44 said:

Because you don't like the way it works, it's a bug...

Maybe just the Spitfire modeling is more realistic than other planes, indeed in the P51-D the displacement is identical open or closed canopy, that's not why it's consistent.

Mounting the camera until your eyes are almost level with the rearview mirror seems unrealistic with the canopy closed.

But this is just my opinion and I didn't understand your explanation...

 

 

 

 

No, as I stated before it is a bug because it was not like that before and it was changed unintentionally, as the change is not documented anywhere,which by definition makes it a bug. My opinion has nothing to do with it, just as yours doesn't. You should really learn that visual indicators in this flight sim mean very little. I already explained why this a "bug" and have come to expect people on here to ignore the facts when it is convenient to them or counter to their opinion.  I don't engage in discussion on here based on opinion because everyone is always going to be right in their mind. Just like the way you through out the idea that maybe the spitfire is just modeled more realistic than the other fighters with absolutely nothing to back it up. In fact when updates are made to aircraft to make them more realistic it is done intentionally and documented as such. I'm not going to bother explaining software development to you anymore or engage in any other arguments about it. As you can see, I reported it and the person that is supposed to look into it as a software developer has responded as expected and not bothered with engaging in any opinion based arguments. Frankly it really doesn't matter to me in the least how you see it, the people that actually do software development don't care either. I'll leave it with them to correct.

 

6 minutes ago, SUNTSAG said:

I am unable to replicate your issue and here are a couple of images to reflect what I am seeing and able to do. First image is standard and second image is seat raised.

Screen_211104_225149.png

Screen_211104_225101.png

Very interesting and thank you for looking into this. I'm trying to image what else it can be. As you can see another person above in this thread is having it happen the same as me. I'm wondering if it is possible it has anything to do with video settings. What resolution are you using.

 

Thanks,

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6 minutes ago, Alphazulu said:

No, as I stated before it is a bug because it was not like that before and it was changed unintentionally, as the change is not documented anywhere,which by definition makes it a bug. My opinion has nothing to do with it, just as yours doesn't. You should really learn that visual indicators in this flight sim mean very little. I already explained why this a "bug" and have come to expect people on here to ignore the facts when it is convenient to them or counter to their opinion.  I don't engage in discussion on here based on opinion because everyone is always going to be right in their mind. Just like the way you through out the idea that maybe the spitfire is just modeled more realistic than the other fighters with absolutely nothing to back it up. In fact when updates are made to aircraft to make them more realistic it is done intentionally and documented as such. I'm not going to bother explaining software development to you anymore or engage in any other arguments about it. As you can see, I reported it and the person that is supposed to look into it as a software developer has responded as expected and not bothered with engaging in any opinion based arguments. Frankly it really doesn't matter to me in the least how you see it, the people that actually do software development don't care either. I'll leave it with them to correct.

 

Very interesting and thank you for looking into this. I'm trying to image what else it can be. As you can see another person above in this thread is having it happen the same as me. I'm wondering if it is possible it has anything to do with video settings. What resolution are you using.

 

Thanks,

I have tried it in both the formats I have available to me as follows: 1920x1080 and 2560x1440 with the same results.

Callsign: NAKED

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I'm assuming you are on the latest version? I'm installing it now to see if that matters. I'm assuming you are using the move camera up control as well to raise it, is that right? I've also been online on comms lately discussing this with some other guys and it is the same for all them as it is for me.

Thanks,


Edited by Alphazulu
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14 minutes ago, SUNTSAG said:

Yes all my tests are in the latest OpenBeta version and I use voice attack to execute the following keybind commands RCtrl+RShift+NumPad Up which raises my seat position. Cheers.

Interesting, when I set the key command for "Cockpit Camera Move Up" back to default it sets it to RCtrl+RShift+NumPad8 not RCtrl+RShift+NumPad Up.

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Or just not the same for everyone, another aspects of software bugs you don't understand.

And now all the other things you had to say about how it should be they way just go out the window when Suntag confirms that it should not be that way, you are too funny. Suntag just confirmed that I'm right in how it should be. Like I said, always find a way to be right in their own little minds. There are already other people in this thread that confirm it does the same thing for them, but I wouldn't expect you to actually read the thread you comment on. It's hilarious how little you understand the conversation going on around you.

 


Edited by Alphazulu
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^ Calm down, your catfight doesn't help either, especially when you're NOT right about "change being undocumented by definition being a bug". As a long time registered user you should know that patchnotes released by ED are always rudimentary at best and every update brings many changes, bug fixes and new features not even hinted, let alone documented anywhere. Sloppy job, maybe, but that's the way ED does business and we can only "deal with it".

Discovering these changes by surprise can be part of fun anyway (well, good changes I mean, the bugs are another matter obviously).

Now, back on topic of the issue discussed here, I'm sort of "on your side", not because I feel the need to move the camera - I don't, but because after a quick check I can confirm the vertical camera shift seems to be limited same way on my computer as on yours, i.e. by using standard cam commands (Ctrl Shift and numpads), I can only elevate the cam to position you showed on your screens, but I cannot elevate it to position shown on Suntsag's screens. Not with closed canopy at least. Opened canopy alows me to move it up to windscreen frame, but closing the canopy brings it back to your position. Now we just have to figure out why that happens - what's different in your and mine setups vs Suntsag's and Tanuki's setups.

For the reference, I play in 1440p, got save snapviews option turned on, don't use any camera related mods, the test I did was made with Track IR disabled and thus with default FoV (Suntsag's definitely isn't default, but I think it shouldn't matter).


Edited by Art-J

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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This is even what you can get by pushing the abberation of a seat too high!

 

ab1.png

 

There is no bug in the strict sense, but probably some values in a Spitfire file

that may have changed. 

But seriously, I'm setting back the values initially decided by ED

 


Edited by Tanuki44
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On 11/5/2021 at 11:25 AM, Art-J said:

^ Calm down, your catfight doesn't help either, especially when you're NOT right about "change being undocumented by definition being a bug". As a long time registered user you should know that patchnotes released by ED are always rudimentary at best and every update brings many changes, bug fixes and new features not even hinted, let alone documented anywhere. Sloppy job, maybe, but that's the way ED does business and we can only "deal with it".

Discovering these changes by surprise can be part of fun anyway (well, good changes I mean, the bugs are another matter obviously).

Now, back on topic of the issue discussed here, I'm sort of "on your side", not because I feel the need to move the camera - I don't, but because after a quick check I can confirm the vertical camera shift seems to be limited same way on my computer as on yours, i.e. by using standard cam commands (Ctrl Shift and numpads), I can only elevate the cam to position you showed on your screens, but I cannot elevate it to position shown on Suntsag's screens. Not with closed canopy at least. Opened canopy alows me to move it up to windscreen frame, but closing the canopy brings it back to your position. Now we just have to figure out why that happens - what's different in your and mine setups vs Suntsag's and Tanuki's setups.

For the reference, I play in 1440p, got save snapviews option turned on, don't use any camera related mods, the test I did was made with Track IR disabled and thus with default FoV (Suntsag's definitely isn't default, but I think it shouldn't matter).

 

I've disabled any mods that I did have, disabled TrackIR and have played with any setting that relate to the pilots head position. I confirmed yesterday with 7 other players on the SOW server that it is the same for them and they can't move it up either. I've tested it in 1440p and 1080p. I had the save snapviews enabled as well and tried turning it off. I also ran the full repair the other day on this install, not the short ones that only checks modded files but the long one that checks the default files as well.

By the way, you say I'm not right, you seem to be assuming that I'm going by the patch notes only, which I'm not.  I do know that patch notes released by ED are always rudimentary, which is why I confirm that a change was not intentional with ED devs before posting a bug report. I confirmed this sometime ago with this one but just now got around to posting the bug report. I usually just leave it until someone else gets around to it because I hate dealing with it, but this one has just gone on for so long now.  I didn't say that it was strictly with the patch notes, of course you can't go by those and hence the comment, not documented in "anyway". All that said, I really don't know why I engage with people like that, it's a true waste of time.

Cheers


Edited by Alphazulu
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