JF-17 VS Rafale, a victor of 6:2?

[J-20]

Hi, guys, can anyone confirm this?
I recently saw this news from a media in Taiwan.
It said that Pakistan used their JF-17 against Qatar's Rafale in their joint military exercise.
The results showed a 6:2 victory for the JF-17.
If this is true, that's just WOW

Anyway, the link for the new is here: at 1:09:58

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by J-20

[hamza_Khan]

Jeff 6?

[AnarchyZG]

Highly unlikely in most conceivable scenarios.

Rafale is waaaay more capable (and waaay more expensive) aircraft in every respect.

For illustration, Rafale can carry fueled and armed JF-17 as payload

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by AnarchyZG

[frumpy]

Quatar has a single Rafale and 1,500 personell, Pakistan has 50 JF-17 and 70,000 personell.

[Torbernite]

Sorry but I don't think those media are often believable on topics related to Chinese Mainland. Let's just calm down and wait for more news. In my impression, when most of them talk about those on the opposite bank, on Mon. Wed. and Fri. they just say they are fierce and invasive, on Tue. Thu. and Sat. they say they are clownish and weak, on Sunday i don't know maybe they have the day off.

[TLTeo]

Can't take much away from a single exercise, because a) it's too small a sample and b) the outcome depends very strongly on whatever RoE were agreed upon. Was it WVR only? BVR too? How were shots counted? Were the Rafales simulating the Meteor or not? What were the odds in the engagement? etc etc.

 

If you look hard enough for the outcome of individual exercises, you can demonstrate that e.g. the F-104 can destroy the F-15, e.g. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-old-school-f-104-could-beat-f-15-battle-74786 . As much as I love the Starfighter, that doesn't prove that it was a better plane than the Eagle, just that the outcome of air combat has a very (very very very very) high variance.

[Hummingbird]

The Rafale demolishes the JF-17 in every respect, so no, it's not believable in the slightest - at least not in the way they're trying to spin it.

[PLAAF]

1 hour ago, TLTeo said:

Can't take much away from a single exercise, because a) it's too small a sample and b) the outcome depends very strongly on whatever RoE were agreed upon. Was it WVR only? BVR too? How were shots counted? Were the Rafales simulating the Meteor or not? What were the odds in the engagement? etc etc.

 

If you look hard enough for the outcome of individual exercises, you can demonstrate that e.g. the F-104 can destroy the F-15, e.g. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-old-school-f-104-could-beat-f-15-battle-74786 . As much as I love the Starfighter, that doesn't prove that it was a better plane than the Eagle, just that the outcome of air combat has a very (very very very very) high variance.

I agree with TLTeo.
There are way to many variables for a single exercise to prove a point.
There could be issues such as pilot skill, commander's tactics, luck, etc.....
 

[Qiou87]

There is also a video out there (HUD tape) of a Rafale killing a F-22 Raptor during an exercise. So if JF-17 is better than Rafale, and Rafale is better than F-22, does it mean the JF-17 is miles ahead of a 5th gen fighter like the F-22? 

 

Exercises are not a demonstration of the aircraft capabilities and should absolutely not be extrapolated as anything meaningful.

[BIGNEWY]

hi all, 

 

if you are going to comment please remember the rules and stay away from childish name calling. 

 

thanks

[Harlikwin]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:19 AM, AnarchyZG said:

Highly unlikely in most conceivable scenarios.

Rafale is waaaay more capable (and waaay more expensive) aircraft in every respect.

For illustration, Rafale can carry fueled and armed JF-17 as payload

 

 

 

If it makes to DCS a Jeff should be a centerline loadout 

On 7/6/2021 at 7:59 AM, Hummingbird said:

The Rafale demolishes the JF-17 in every respect, so no, it's not believable in the slightest - at least not in the way they're trying to spin it.

 

That's the problem with any exercise. No one knows the actual context, or parameters which are often crazy. It could have been JF17 full armed with BVR missiles, and Rafale with Fox2, or just guns. These exercises are never 1:1 nor do most nations actually reveal any special capabilities the planes have. 

[GGTharos]

On 7/6/2021 at 11:48 AM, PLAAF said:

I agree with TLTeo.
There are way to many variables for a single exercise to prove a point.
There could be issues such as pilot skill, commander's tactics, luck, etc.....

 

None of these things are a factor.  Exercises usually have a scripted and agreed upon format - it is very atypical for those to be any form of competition whatsoever.  There's very little to be taken away by public declarations regarding such exercises.

[Harlikwin]

4 hours ago, GGTharos said:

 

None of these things are a factor.  Exercises usually have a scripted and agreed upon format - it is very atypical for those to be any form of competition whatsoever.  There's very little to be taken away by public declarations regarding such exercises.

 

Yup there are hud tapes of hornets killing F22's. Anyone wanna bet how "relevant" that is in the real world?

 

[EnvyC]

If anything its propaganda aimed at Indias acquisition of Rafales since they kind of don't like each other very much.

[PLAAF]

6 hours ago, EnvyC said:

If anything its propaganda aimed at Indias acquisition of Rafales since they kind of don't like each other very much.

 

Doubtful, the author of this news is not from Pakistan nor mainland China. It's from Taiwan.

[Harlikwin]

On 7/17/2021 at 1:06 PM, PLAAF said:

 

Doubtful, the author of this news is not from Pakistan nor mainland China. It's from Taiwan.

 

So it has a 3rd party agenda?

 

[PLAAF]

1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

 

So it has a 3rd party agenda?

 

They might, but if they do, the "agenda" won't be what EnvyC implied. Because Taiwan has no reason to hate india. So there is no reason for they to make a propaganda "aimed at Indias acquisition of Rafales".

[Dragon1-1]

If anything, I'd expect Taiwan to bash the Chinese-made JF-17. That said, this was either a scripted exercise or perhaps a dogfight. A competent JF-17 pilot can threaten the Rafale, especially in WVR, but so can a MiG-17, especially if the Rafale pilot isn't very good and gets baited into a turning contest with an inferior energy state.

[EnvyC]

On 7/18/2021 at 5:06 AM, PLAAF said:

 

Doubtful, the author of this news is not from Pakistan nor mainland China. It's from Taiwan.

Well observed, you are correct. I'm still suspicious but its a valid observation.