Should radar reacquire lock automatically after it was lost in STT mode?

[lester]

Have a stupid question: should Hornet radar automatically reacquire lock after it was lost when tracking and engaging target in STT mode with FOX1 (due to target actively maneuvering/notching for example)? Is it possible that it automatically locks on another fighter located close to the original target after lock was lost (say friendly involved into dogfight with the same target) in multiplayer and is there a possibility that my FOX1 might hit this another plane instead as a result? My expectation was that it shouldn't, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Hulkbust44]

No, there is no auto reacquisition. However, if you can quickly reacquire the target the missile should resume tracking.If the STT is dropped when guiding a missile, the WCS will revert to sparrow FLOOD mode. With FLOOD the area of radar coverage off your nose is flooded with emissions. Whatever reflects the radar energy should be visible to the sparrow and it will go for that return.

Mobius708

[lester]

2 hours ago, Hulkbust44 said:

No, there is no auto reacquisition. However, if you can quickly reacquire the target the missile should resume tracking.If the STT is dropped when guiding a missile, the WCS will revert to sparrow FLOOD mode. With FLOOD the area of radar coverage off your nose is flooded with emissions. Whatever reflects the radar energy should be visible to the sparrow and it will go for that return.

Mobius708
 

 

Thanks for the explanation! So there's still a chance to hit a friendly fighter which happen to be close to the target even with FOX1 either by locking it up accidentally in an attempt to manually reacquire the lock or if WCS switches Sparrow to the FLOOD mode when lock isn't reacquired manually. Looking into the Hornet manual the FLOOD mode of Sparrow might only be engaged up to 10 nm to the (any emitting) target, right? Also where will be the area radar is illuminating for the Sparrow which is switched to the FLOOD mode when lock is lost (designated with ASE circle on the HUD when missile is launched in FLOOD mode in usual circumstances), straight ahead of the (already launched) missile up to 10 nm, nose of the aircraft within 10 nm, entire space radar scans with the current parameters? Should pilot see FLOOD indication on HUD/RADAR in case of switching to this mode?

Edited July 7, 2021 by lester

[Harker]

FLOOD illuminates in front of the aircraft, in the radius shown by the un-designated AIM-7 circle on the HUD (not the ASE circle).

There is always the danger of picking up a friendly in STT, when the two aircraft share very similar velocities and ranges (as they would if they were enraged in a dogfight). My recommendation is to disable 1LOOK RAID, if you have it enabled, as it can lead to target switching and instead enter STT RAID manually, using the HOTAS command. That will allow you to break out the targets and ensure that you're not targeting a friendly.

Of course, coordinating on comms is a very important thing during this whole process and can simplify it greatly, such as when the engaged aircraft performs an out of plane maneuver to increase separation from the bandit and allow you to get a clearer shot.

[Hulkbust44]

 
Should pilot see FLOOD indication on HUD/RADAR in case of switching to this mode?

Yes, the Attack format B sweep line will stop in the middle and FLOOD will be displayed.

Mobius708

[lester]

4 hours ago, Harker said:

FLOOD illuminates in front of the aircraft, in the radius shown by the un-designated AIM-7 circle on the HUD (not the ASE circle).

 

I just referenced ASE circle looking into the following quote from the Hornet manual:

Quote

With an AIM-7 launch with no radar lock, the radar will change to FLOOD mode and use the illumination horn on the radar to illuminate the airspace delineated by AIM-7 ASE circle on the HUD. By flying to keep a target within this circle, the seeker of the AIM-7 will attempt to lock on to and guide on the nearest target. This is effective out to 10 nm.

 

 

4 hours ago, Harker said:

There is always the danger of picking up a friendly in STT, when the two aircraft share very similar velocities and ranges (as they would if they were enraged in a dogfight). My recommendation is to disable 1LOOK RAID, if you have it enabled, as it can lead to target switching and instead enter STT RAID manually, using the HOTAS command. That will allow you to break out the targets and ensure that you're not targeting a friendly.

Of course, coordinating on comms is a very important thing during this whole process and can simplify it greatly, such as when the engaged aircraft performs an out of plane maneuver to increase separation from the bandit and allow you to get a clearer shot.

 

Many thanks for the advice and info about these RAID radar modes. They were introduced just recently and are not very well documented (yet), but this thread helped a bit:

 

4 hours ago, Harker said:

Of course, coordinating on comms is a very important thing during this whole process and can simplify it greatly, such as when the engaged aircraft performs an out of plane maneuver to increase separation from the bandit and allow you to get a clearer shot.

 

Yeah, I do realize that communication is probably the most important thing in such scenario

[Harker]

 
I just referenced ASE circle looking into the following quote from the Hornet manual:

I think that statement is confusing the ASE circle with the AIM-7 FLOOD circle.

If you lose lock on the target, you'll effectively lose the L&S and so you'll lose the ASE circle. The ASE circle uses target range and velocity to provide optimal steering cues. If you don't have a target because you've lost it, you don't have an ASE circle to see. Instead, the HUD should revert to the unguided AIM-7 circle symbology, that indicates the area covered by FLOOD illumination.

If you do have the target, the radar will automatically enter STT PDI upon commanding an AIM-7 launch.

[Bunny Clark]

7 hours ago, Harker said:

I think that statement is confusing the ASE circle with the AIM-7 FLOOD circle.

Agreed. The FLOOD circle is a missile guidance circle on the HUD, but it isn't an ASE circle anymore than the ACM Boresight circle is. It works more or less the same way as the AMRAAM dashed VISUAL circle on the HUD. 

[lester]

On 7/7/2021 at 1:21 PM, Hulkbust44 said:

No, there is no auto reacquisition.

 

On 7/8/2021 at 7:29 AM, Harker said:

There is always the danger of picking up a friendly in STT, when the two aircraft share very similar velocities and ranges (as they would if they were enraged in a dogfight). My recommendation is to disable 1LOOK RAID, if you have it enabled, as it can lead to target switching and instead enter STT RAID manually, using the HOTAS command. That will allow you to break out the targets and ensure that you're not targeting a friendly.

 

Just to clarify for myself and considering what was written above. The manual says following in the AIM-7 with L&S Target section:

Quote

Memory Mode indication and Memory Track Time. If the radar loses track on the target, it will automatically enter memory (MEM) mode. During this period, the radar will attempt to reacquire the target and the amount of time the radar is in memory mode is displayed in seconds to the right. (Coming later in Open Beta)

 

Does it mean that in fact there is auto re-acquisition (and accordingly wrong target might be reacquired)? Does it only work when 1LOOK RAID mode is enabled - from what I read it should only produce track files for the targets close to the STT track (iow will radar have info about additional planes nearby only when 1LOOK RAID mode is enabled during the time MEM mode is activated) - or 1LOOK RAID only matters when pilot attempts to manually reacquire the lost lock? How can radar differentiate between two aircraft which are close to each other and have similar parameters when it attempts to re-acquire the lock (if it does try to auto re-acquire ofc) - it shouldn't be possible without additional sources of information like IFF etc, right? Thanks

Edited July 10, 2021 by lester

[Harker]

 
Does it mean that in fact there is auto re-acquisition (and accordingly wrong target might be reacquired)? Does it only work when 1LOOK RAID mode is enabled - from what I read it should only produce track files for the targets close to the STT track (iow will radar have info about additional planes nearby only when 1LOOK RAID mode is enabled during the time MEM mode is activated) - or 1LOOK RAID only matters when pilot attempts to manually reacquire the lost lock? How can radar differentiate between two aircraft which are close to each other and have similar parameters when it attempts to re-acquire the lock (if it does try to auto re-acquire ofc) - it shouldn't be possible without additional sources of information like IFF etc, right? Thanks

The radar will attempt to reacquire the L&S, by extrapolating its range and velocity and looking for a contact that matches the extrapolation (I'm sure the procedure is more complicated than that, but this is the idea) for a period of time. And to answer your question regarding acquiring the wrong target, it's possible, if the two aircraft are flying with a very similar velocities and are very close to each other. Remember that the radar has a limit to its resolution.

1LOOK RAID doesn't need to be enabled for Memory mode to do its thing, although I suspect that it might increase the chance of reacquiring the wrong target, but that's more of an empirical understanding for me, right now (I don't know enough about what the actual wave changes between STT and RAID are, so I'd rather not speculate). It might increase the chance of reacquiring *a* target.

You're correct in saying that the pilot will need additional information to judge whether the target is friendly or not. You can interrogate the L&S and get IFF and NCTR info, which should help differentiate the aircraft.

[nighthawk2174]

On 7/7/2021 at 10:52 AM, lester said:

Have a stupid question: should Hornet radar automatically reacquire lock after it was lost when tracking and engaging target in STT mode with FOX1 (due to target actively maneuvering/notching for example)? Is it possible that it automatically locks on another fighter located close to the original target after lock was lost (say friendly involved into dogfight with the same target) in multiplayer and is there a possibility that my FOX1 might hit this another plane instead as a result? My expectation was that it shouldn't, but maybe I'm wrong.

It should, I have a F18 radar manual and a friend of mine shared it with ED.  It should attempt to reacquire by going into a mini-raster scan where it thinks the target should be.  It should continue to do this till either it reacquires or is commanded to go back to search.  Additionally the radar will go into low-prf (no PD filtering as such no notch) and attempt to lock the target.  It will attempt to do this if the target is either separated sufficiently from the main lobe clutter in range.  Or if the targets return competes against the ground clutter then it will be able to track it. 

[lester]

Harker, nighthawk2174

 

Thank you both for the clarification and such a detailed answers!