AV-8B NA and the AGM-65 Maverick: Updated Procedures and Limitations

[Zeus67]

The AV-8B NA in DCS can use the following AGM-65 Maverick variants:

• AGM-65F: IR homing missile. Does not require external sources to lock on target.
• AGM-65E & AGM-65E2: Laser guided missile. Requires an external source to “paint” the target with a laser designator. In DCS the AGM-65E2 is named AGM-65E2/L (E2 for the US Navy, L for the USAF).

 

Global Properties and Limitations:

1. Only Inner and Middle pylons can carry Mavericks.
2. Aircraft can only carry one missile per pylon.
3. All missiles can be selected and uncaged from the EHSD and RWR pages. Maverick Video will replace the current page when the missile is active.
4. Laser Mavericks must spool up its gyros before it can be used. This process takes 30 seconds for the E and 90 seconds for the E2. During this time the missile cannot be uncaged nor fired. The gyros will remain spooled as long as the missiles are selected. Deselecting and selecting again will require that the gyros spool up again.

 

AGM-65F and AGM-65E Properties Limitations:

1. Mavericks cannot be used at the same time with the TPOD.
2. If the TPOD is active, Maverick video will replace TPOD video when the missile is active.
3. If the TPOD is selected after selecting a Maverick, the missile will be deselected.

 

AGM-65E2 Properties and Limitations:

1. Maverick can be used at the same time with the TPOD.
2. If the TPOD is active. TPOD video will remain active all the time.
3. If the TPOD is selected after selecting an E2, TPOD video will replace Maverick video.
4. When a TPOD is used, the missile will run in the background fully capable of being caged/uncaged and fired at any time.
5. When self-lasing with a TPOD, it is possible for the E2 seeker head to lock onto the TPOD sensor head instead of the target spot if the TPOD is in Station 4 (Centerline).

 

AGM-65E2 Self-Lasing procedures:

To prevent self lock the following procedure must be followed when self-lasing:

1.       Designate target with the TPOD. Adjust designation as needed.

2.       Uncage the E2 missile.

3.       Fire the laser at the target.

4.       Press WINC for more than 0.8 seconds to steer to T0.

5.       Fire the missile when ready.

When in the TPOD page, if pressing Sensor Select Switch (SSS) Forward for more than 0.8 seconds, the Maverick video will replace TPOD video for 14 seconds. The TPOD laser will continue painting the designated target. After 14 seconds, TPOD video replaces Maverick video.

 

NOTE: Laser Maverick video only shows sensor head position. It does not show external views unlike IR Maverick video.

 

HUD "IN RNG" Advisory

Any AGM-65 (F, E or E2) target is NOT an aircraft system target. Because of that, the aircraft cannot determine range to target.

The IN RNG (In Range) advisory that appears in the HUD is only available if there is a system designated target (via DMT, TPOD or INS). In this case the range to target will be calculated FROM the aircraft TO the designated target, NOT to the maverick target.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Zeus67

[Beirut]

Cool! 

[horstweihrauch]

I rated this topic 5 stars

[Recluse]

Assuming this applies after the NEXT OB update, or whenever the Change Log indicates the update to Mavericks?

[Fri13]

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

1. All missiles can be selected and uncaged from the EHSD and RWR pages. Maverick Video will replace the current page when the missile is active.

 

Hopefully as well from the DMT page?

 

"A/G weapon options are presented on the DDI stores display in all master modes except A/A. In the A/G mode, weapon options are also presented on the EHSI, DMT, and ECM displays" (Page 1-303)."

 

So it is safe to assume that proper functionality that when the TPOD is the active sensor (SSS 2x for HTS mode) the throttle "Uncage" does nothing for the Mavericks because it is directed to TPOD that is the master Maverick Video. And hence pilot needs to exit the TPOD (SSS 2x) and open another page (like MENU or NAVFLIR) to be able send Uncage command to selected Maverick missile?

 

The maverick doesn't replace the TPOD video, but it will always go to the left MFCD, unless the STORES page is open in the right MFCD (page 2-183).

And how does one "uncage" a Maverick from other pages? Isn't it that you need to have a Maverick video active (in other words, no TPOD video visible at all) and in IRMV mode to send commands to selected Maverick to uncage it?

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

1. Laser Mavericks must spool up its gyros before it can be used. This process takes 30 seconds for the E and 90 seconds for the E2. During this time the missile cannot be uncaged nor fired. The gyros will remain spooled as long as the missiles are selected. Deselecting and selecting again will require that the gyros spool up again.

 

I assume this is for all the Mavericks that are loaded to Harrier, and not just for the selected one. As manual says that when LMAV is selected the SMCS commands all LMAV missiles to spool up.

And I hope the proper sensor integration is implemented to the DMT so that ARBS/LST sensor can be integrated with it to acquire target at increased range and azimuth. And of course as well the proper scan patterns (Narrow, Wide and HUD, based to automatically be selected by the MC based to is target designated or what is the DMT/LST scan option).

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

AGM-65F and AGM-65E Properties Limitations:

1. Mavericks cannot be used at the same time with the TPOD.
2. If the TPOD is active, Maverick video will replace TPOD video when the missile is active.
3. If the TPOD is selected after selecting a Maverick, the missile will be deselected.

 

Is that correct? Because the manual is very clear that Maverick video can not be activated as long the TPOD video is shown.

 

"Because TPOD video is provided as maverick emulation, maverick video is not available when TPOD video is selected"

Page 1-367.

 

That means that when ever the TPOD is selected, the mavericks video should be turned off or not be possible be even activated.

And about the IIR or L mavericks:

 

"When MAV/IRMV is selected, LST correlated and Laser Maverick video displayed, pressing the target designate button replaces the Laser Maverick video with the DMT display. When MAV/IRMV is selected, LST correlated and DMT video displayed, pressing the target designate button replaces the DMT video with Laser Maverick video"

page 2-168.

 

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

AGM-65E2 Properties and Limitations:

1. Maverick can be used at the same time with the TPOD.
2. If the TPOD is active. TPOD video will remain active all the time.

 

Please explain how the AGM-65E2 doesn't use the Maverick video standard but overrides the TPOD set restriction?

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

1. If the TPOD is selected after selecting an E2, TPOD video will replace Maverick video.

 

Why TPOD would replace the AGM-65E2 seeker video when it is not utilizing the standard Maverick video in first place?

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

1. When a TPOD is used, the missile will run in the background fully capable of being caged/uncaged and fired at any time.

 

How does the E2 variant seeker receive the Uncage command when TPOD is capturing it as it is the "Maverick" master mode?

And how can that seeker be running all the time even when selecting/deselecting the missile?

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

1. When self-lasing with a TPOD, it is possible for the E2 seeker head to lock onto the TPOD sensor head instead of the target spot if the TPOD is in Station 4 (Centerline).

 

How so, as the TPOD itself is little front of the whole Maverick seekers heads but as well outside gimbal range of the maverick seeker?

The TPOD glass needs to be clean so it doesn't scatter laser energy to own fuselage yes, but the maverick seekers has no over 80 degrees itself to be able look at the TPOD head, unless the E2 has now some amazing gimbal?

So why not E model to do that same? 

 

 

Does this mean that TPOD will be modeled with the automatic laser shut-off (unarming) with the Laser Mask for two modes?

(Page 1-371)

 

"1.18.3.3.2 Laser Masks. Since the lasers are not eye−safe at distances less than NOHD, even for scattered/reflected energy, laser masks are provided to insure the laser energy does not strike the aircraft or its stores.......These laser masks, which represent the masking zones plus a margin of safety, restrict laser firing when the pod LOS encounters the laser−masking zones."

 

 

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

AGM-65E2 Self-Lasing procedures:

To prevent self lock the following procedure must be followed when self-lasing:

1.       Designate target with the TPOD. Adjust designation as needed.

2.       Uncage the E2 missile.

2B.     Turn Master Arm 

3.       Fire the laser at the target.

4.       Press WINC for more than 0.8 seconds to steer to T0.

5.       Fire the missile when ready.

 

As the laser doesn't fire when the Master Arm is not On.

That is now easy to forget as the laser arm process was changed. As so many is switching Master Arm just before launch as laser as possible be fired incorrectly before the update.

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

When in the TPOD page, if pressing Sensor Select Switch (SSS) Forward for more than 0.8 seconds, the Maverick video will replace TPOD video for 14 seconds. The TPOD laser will continue painting the designated target. After 14 seconds, TPOD video replaces Maverick video.

 

Again the question that why does the Maverick jump to right MFCD without STORES page being open in there?

 

"IRMV video appears on the stores

page or left MPCD with each initial

uncage command only. If another

display such as the EHSD is

selected while IRMV video is

displayed (i.e., via sensor select

switch left HOTAS command),

select MENU/STRS to return

to IRMV video"

 

Page 2-183

 

On 7/10/2021 at 12:57 AM, Zeus67 said:

NOTE: Laser Maverick video only shows sensor head position. It does not show external views unlike IR Maverick video.

 

How does the Laser Maverick receive the command signals like Uncage from the controls when the TPOD is the master Maverick video source in emulation mode, as the IIR Maverick uses the Uncage for polarization change?

As when the TPOD is like any Maverick when its video is on, then it is receiving the uncage command like it would be the maverick seeker. Normally Uncage button alters the delivery mode (CCIP/AUTO) but the AGM is indirect delivery mode and doesn't offer that function, but is received by the active Maverick (TPOD in this case).

 

And what in the AGM-65E2/L seeker has changed so that it will override the Mission Computer commands and TPOD Maverick emulation?

Why can't all Mavericks videos be switched to with SSS Up for > 0.8 seconds?

Why with the E2 the SSS Up does the TPOD suddenly know that such missile is loaded and know how to behave?

 

Do we as well get the proper laser code system, where LMAV are set to 1111 when Weight On Wheels sensor is triggered, the mission computer is set to zeroed out (no code) and TPOD is set to as well its own default 1111 code, until pilot enters the valid laser code to the system?

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Fri13

[Zeus67]

On 7/11/2021 at 3:22 PM, Fri13 said:

Hopefully as well from the DMT page?

 

"A/G weapon options are presented on the DDI stores display in all master modes except A/A. In the A/G mode, weapon options are also presented on the EHSI, DMT, and ECM displays" (Page 1-303)."

 

So it is safe to assume that proper functionality that when the TPOD is the active sensor (SSS 2x for HTS mode) the throttle "Uncage" does nothing for the Mavericks because it is directed to TPOD that is the master Maverick Video. And hence pilot needs to exit the TPOD (SSS 2x) and open another page (like MENU or NAVFLIR) to be able send Uncage command to selected Maverick missile?

Yes. You can uncage from any page that selects a weapon.

No. If you select the TPOD after selecting a F or an E, the missile is deselected.  You will have to select the maverick again.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 3:22 PM, Fri13 said:

The maverick doesn't replace the TPOD video, but it will always go to the left MFCD, unless the STORES page is open in the right MFCD (page 2-183).

That manual has ben superseded by more current docs. TPOD video is replaced by Maverick video.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 3:22 PM, Fri13 said:

I assume this is for all the Mavericks that are loaded to Harrier, and not just for the selected one. As manual says that when LMAV is selected the SMCS commands all LMAV missiles to spool up.

Yes. All selected missiles of the same type will be spooled up. Selection energizes all pylons holding the same weapon. Missile seekers spool up as soon as powered and spool down when unpowered. That is why if you deselect them, they will need to spool up when reselected.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 3:22 PM, Fri13 said:

Please explain how the AGM-65E2 doesn't use the Maverick video standard but overrides the TPOD set restriction?

AGM-65E2 video runs on the back of TPOD video. So it is not shown.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 3:22 PM, Fri13 said:

How does the E2 variant seeker receive the Uncage command when TPOD is capturing it as it is the "Maverick" master mode?

And how can that seeker be running all the time even when selecting/deselecting the missile?

That is what the manual says as a warning. That the E2 is active ALL the time when selected, even if no video is being shown.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 3:22 PM, Fri13 said:

How so, as the TPOD itself is little front of the whole Maverick seekers heads but as well outside gimbal range of the maverick seeker?

That is another warning in the manual. If the TPOD is in Station 4 there is a high probability of the E2 seeker locking on the TPOD. That is why you first UNCAGE the missile and then fire the laser. If the missile has locked on the TPOD you must cage it, stop the laser, uncage the missile and fire the laser again.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 3:22 PM, Fri13 said:

How does the Laser Maverick receive the command signals like Uncage from the controls when the TPOD is the master Maverick video source in emulation mode, as the IIR Maverick uses the Uncage for polarization change?

I don't have the answers. I am just following the procedures as indicated in the manual.

1. The E2 can be used with the TPOD.

2. TPOD video will be on top of MAVERICK E2 video, so only TPOD video will be shown.

3. SSS FWD > 0.8 will put E2 video on top of TPOD video for 14 seconds.

4. E2 is active ALL the time it is selected. It can be caged/uncaged and fired without video.

5. E2 can lock to the TPOD sensor instead of the laser spot.

4 and 5 are WARNINGS in the manual.

 

Note: The AGM-65F procedures are copied from the E procedures since F is no longer used in the USMC.

 

This is a document detailing changes made to the Mavericks and its use with the TPOD.

CHANGES TO AGM and TPOD AV-8B.docx

Edited July 13, 2021 by Zeus67

[Alpiinoo]

Thanks.

We won't be able to use the F model in the next update, right?

[Gizmo03]

They said they will keep the F in the game which is very appreciated - at least by me

 

[Alpiinoo]

12 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

They said they will keep the F in the game which is very appreciated - at least by me

 

Nice!!!!

[Zeus67]

53 minutes ago, Alpiinoo said:

Thanks.

We won't be able to use the F model in the next update, right?

The AGM-65F remains as an authorized load. You can still use it.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Zeus67

[Zeus67]

I have added a note regarding the iN RNG HUD advisory

[Fri13]

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

Yes. You can uncage from any page that selects a weapon.

 

So EHSI, EW, STRS and DMT pages allows to uncage the weapon as all those allows to select weapon from MFCD.

But how does the TPOD page that is a active do it (unless left MFCD is swapped EHSI -> Decenter -> EW -> EHSI to make it active and those has weapon selection on top row) that doesn't allow weapon selection?

How does the TPOD (that is active page) know what weapon station to select E2 maverick?

 

And this does raise the question, in the situations when example HUD and DDI are malfunctioning, why does pilot backup options still allow to uncage Mavericks as long the A/g mode is not malfunctioning? (You select Maverick from ACP, Uncage is always going to Maverick when it is selected instead to TPOD, that needs to be turned off so any maverick can be selected, because TPOD video overrides all maverick videos in any order or combination) You can use the OSB on malfunctioning MFCD as signals are still sent to page. MC malfunction disables Maverick programming but allows launch in backup mode, SMCS failure Mavericks are lost from launching. DMT failure doesn't affect Mavericks use capability (loses LST sync).

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

No. If you select the TPOD after selecting a F or an E, the missile is deselected.  You will have to select the maverick again.

 

Again, the manual Razbam is now implementing is clear that the TPOD is primary one and doesn't allow to open Maverick without first switching away from TPOD video (no video feed from the TPOD itself).

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

That manual has ben superseded by more current docs. TPOD video is replaced by Maverick video.

 

Because you say that technical limitation is incorrect, then why are you implementing the technical limitation?

Do you have evidence for that change later than 2011?

Is the "replaced" meaning that maverick video comes from the missile itself to display, or is the maverick video sent to TPOD and it is just showing it for 15 seconds before TPOD cuts the maverick video and presents itself?

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

Yes. All selected missiles of the same type will be spooled up. Selection energizes all pylons holding the same weapon. Missile seekers spool up as soon as powered and spool down when unpowered. That is why if you deselect them, they will need to spool up when reselected.

 

Do we get proper simulation to allow open Maverick video even when 3 minutes for RDR state has not been made, with consequence for inferior video quality etc?

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

AGM-65E2 video runs on the back of TPOD video. So it is not shown.

 

How does it do it technically? 

How can the TPOD (Litening 4G) receive input from the Maverick and send control inputs to the Maverick, from any possible stations that TPOD can be installed (2,3,4B,5,6)?

As that is not the feature that makes E2 Maverick as "self-designate" capable that TPOD takes full control of the weapons systems, but it is that seeker can maintain the lock through the launch and it doesn't breaklock when passing through the TPOD LOS and get lost when it lose a laser for moment. 

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

That is what the manual says as a warning. That the E2 is active ALL the time when selected, even if no video is being shown.

 

What manual?

 

All the Mavericks are active all the time when they are selected, even when the Video is not shown. This is the limitation that the avionics can't handle than one Maverick video feed at the time and pilot needs to switch between the video feed by uncaging the Maverick (automatic to left MFCD, only to the right MFCD if STRS page is open there, unless video is closed after opening by switching to another page and then it is required to go MENU -> STRS -> Uncage again to get it visible). 

 

But how can the E2 maverick seeker lock on the TPOD seeker when the E2 seeker is required to point 80 degrees in stations 3 and 5 on TPOD being in station 4B, and in stations 2 and 6 over 75 degrees to see TPOD in station 4B?

 

Is that warning for some other aircraft where the TPOD can be much further forward so that Maverick seeker could reach it?

Is there evidence that E2 seeker has that over 75 degree horizontal gimbal limit?

 

This is the question that do we get the proper laser masks selection so that we can avoid firing laser on the aircraft causing seekers to lock on to it?

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

That is another warning in the manual. If the TPOD is in Station 4 there is a high probability of the E2 seeker locking on the TPOD. That is why you first UNCAGE the missile and then fire the laser. If the missile has locked on the TPOD you must cage it, stop the laser, uncage the missile and fire the laser again.

 

Again, how can the Maverick seeker lock on the TPOD head that is 10-15 degrees aside of it?

 

As manual as well says that all the maverick seekers will in 1st uncage slave to the target designation (that is not possible be in the TPOD), so it can not lock on TPOD head 10-15 degrees left/right of it as the seeker is locked to boresight and in uncage it will start moving 12deg/s speed to the TD, then how can it be free to move all the time before uncage?

 

As well manual says that laser Mavericks are started in the HUD scan pattern when there is no target designation or there is no LST synchronizing (TPOD/LSS or DMT/LST), otherwise syncing with the another sensor scan pattern with Maverick seeker gimbal limits (narrower than those).

As well when using DMT/LST with the Laser Maverick, both seekers are synchronized and they will move together in the search pattern selected for DMT. If either seeker will find a laser spot, but not the other, then the another will start circulate around the sensor that found the laser so it is assisting the "lost seeker" to find it in specific small area.

 

In any documentation (mavericks maintenance or Harrier or any other aircraft) is there saying that Maverick laser seekers are wild cards that are scanning all over the places without any information that what they are looking for, just trying to find a proper laser code (hazardous in any situation!) without Uncage command, and then on the Uncage moment they would go to this wild mode scanning all over places instead any designated targets or other sensors etc.

 

So from where is this warning coming from?

Why it is against all other procedures?

How come that E2 can lock on TPOD in station 4B, but it can't lock on TPOD when it is on any other valid station that is ahead of it like 3 and 5?

 

 

As that angle is only 16 degrees (74 degrees from missile axis) that is 6 degrees less (84 degrees) than when TPOD is in 4B station...

 

 

Even if we take the angle to closest possible bleed part with laser beam diffraction (laser firing on the edge) we get only a 15 degrees to closest maverick seeker on station 3 and 5. On Station 2 and 6 the angle becomes 21 degrees (69 degrees gimbal) that is still not enough. 

 

 

 

ps, could we please get the TPOD to stations 2 and 6?

 

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

I don't have the answers. I am just following the procedures as indicated in the manual.

 

I hope not that your attached document....

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

1. The E2 can be used with the TPOD.

 

Yes, just like any other Maverick variant.

 

The AGM-65 E2/L has an enhanced laser seeker and new software that reduces the risk of collateral damage and enables aircraft to use onboard, buddy- and ground-based lasing to designate targets. Earlier versions of the missile only enabled buddy- and ground-based laser designation.

https://raytheon.mediaroom.com/index.php?item=1886

 

We can as well see at 2003 the Hornet using a E model to self-designated target. Technically possible, but allowed?

 

https://youtu.be/pNMc7Y3cP_8?t=854

 

Considering that E2 became operational testing in 2012 that is 9 years later...

 

The self-designation capability for Laser Maverick came because new seeker and software to guide that missile.

It became a capability for all aircraft, not just AV-8B Harrier. Other aircraft doesn't have limitation like Harrier does with TPOD emulation.

And it didn't come possible because Harrier TPOD or any other system would have been changed to make it possible. 

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

2. TPOD video will be on top of MAVERICK E2 video, so only TPOD video will be shown.

 

That means all the Mavericks videos are routed through the TPOD, overriding the MC and SMCS, so all mavericks are wired directly to all stations to get that video to the TPOD (bottom illustrator).

As well it means that TPOD has received a wired video Input capability (instead just the Video Output capability and it own VDL (video data-link) to ground units using ROVER or like) and capability control the missiles.

And it is interesting that whole aircraft is required to be rewired and TPOD redesigned to support a self-designation, when just the new seeker has made that feature allowed on all platforms (A-10, F-16, F-18, AV-8B)

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

3. SSS FWD > 0.8 will put E2 video on top of TPOD video for 14 seconds.

 

So when the system is capable handle only one Maverick video (as manual says), now it is a new Maverick seeker that is capable to deliver its video to TPOD, and receive the control inputs from the TPOD, while system is only handling the TPOD itself.....

As well if it would be a background switching without direct wiring, the TPOD would be required to have capability take over the sensor selection when its internal 14 second timer counts zero. That is again a very, very complex change compared to why not just overcome the 15 second limit and make it like a 30-60 seconds, to let the pilot have more time to play around with Mavericks?

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

4. E2 is active ALL the time it is selected. It can be caged/uncaged and fired without video.

 

Extremely dangerous considering that you don't never see that when the Maverick is:

1) Uncaged

2) Searching

3) Tracking

4) Where it is looking at (the "keyhole") 

5) What is the Maverick laser code it is searching for

 

Considering that ALL mavericks seekers are spooled up when selected, but video is opened only when Uncaged and that requires that the system opens the video feed channel to the Maverick so its video can be shown on the proper MFCD and control inputs can be sent back to that missile. The whole system is dedicated to that single Maverick on that moment. And that single Maverick is considered 

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

5. E2 can lock to the TPOD sensor instead of the laser spot.

 

Again, that requires information about the E2 seeker gimbal limits (80 degrees capability, that is major "upgrade" from the previous mavericks (~+/- 28 degree, ~56 degree cone) capability left/right) and that it would even start searching all over its gimbal limits without control, and it specifically going for the area of TD that TPOD created.

 

That is risk with all laser guided weapons why the TPOD laser masks exist, to safe the laser so it does not hit the aircraft that would cause laser energy bleed to weapon seeker.

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

Note: The AGM-65F procedures are copied from the E procedures since F is no longer used in the USMC.

 

You didn't clarify that earlier:

1) "Not longer used by USMC" by not stocking it to the warehouses and delivering it to active units as politics has changed the funding that it is not to be purchased anymore.

2) "Not longer possible be used by USMC N/A Harriers" by removing technical capability in all N/A Harriers to operate it even if loaded to it?

 

As that is the important difference. 

A) If it is a political decision causing it removed from possible loadouts as it is not to be delivered for units, but it exist somewhere for other purposes because the current political decision. Then it should not be implemented to DCS World as it is political decision and not technical.

B) If it is a technical decision causing its technical capability be removed from all N/A Harriers that it can't be used, then it should be removed from the Harrier as otherwise it is technically incorrect to include its capability.

 

On 7/14/2021 at 12:05 AM, Zeus67 said:

This is a document detailing changes made to the Mavericks and its use with the TPOD.

CHANGES TO AGM and TPOD AV-8B.docx 20.95 kB · 31 downloads

 

 

Doesn't explain anything that is required. All that is explained already from the 2002 manual all the way to 2016 versions, except without the errors that document includes.

 

Example of the errors for the Litening 4th gen version:

1) LTIP (SSS Up < 0.8 seconds) is not a Laser Ranging. It is acronym from "Laser Target Imaging Program". It is TPOD performing a Short Wave Infrared (SWIR) laser augmented imaging for a low contrast/visibility scenarios when IR/TV can not reveal the area. When pilot initiates LTIP program, the TPOD shuts off and it performs a Infrared Laser scanning on the area to generate a image from the laser returns. You get almost a 3D build image (without shadows as the laser doesn't create ones) of the view. 

 

2) TPOD doesn't safe the laser when you switch away from it. This is very clearly said in the manuals that TPOD laser keeps firing 15 seconds when pilot switch to another page (and required for E2 maverick), opening again the TPOD page (video) under 15 seconds will maintain the laser armed status, and hence firing. The document says that unless the "SSS Up > 0.8 sec is used, the laser safety is enabled" and it is incorrect.

 

3) Document as well claims that LMV2 is to be selected (typical) from STRS or EHSD page (It is possible to be selected via ACP, EHSI, DMT, STRS and EW pages) and then required to check the laser code to matching TPOD by "Change via UFC if required" (how otherwise you would change the laser code than using UFC?) by what manner? As on the moment you select missile it becomes "Active" and when you 1st time uncage the missile, it is shown on the left MFCD (unless STRS page is open on the right, in this case it is not as TPOD is shown on the right MFCD). The E2 video should show the laser code (defaulted to 1111, same as TPOD does, as system laser code is zeroed when WOW sensor is triggered, and it requires that pilot will enter the proper laser code to system first, and then Mavericks and TPOD will switch to it from 1111 once activated) on its video feed, as well seeker position (1st uncage slaves it to TD if such, otherwise starts scanning in the HUD pattern) and require pilot to change scan mode to something else if no LST/LSS mode is active in other sensors. Meaning as well that E2 maverick doesn't follow the process of other Mavericks to show up on left MFCD when it is selected. 

 

4) Document says that TPOD display doesn't return to TPOD after the launch (Point 8, to confirm lock and gimbal limit launch parameters, waiting 14 seconds after launch to see that a) another E2 maverick has been automatically selected or b) blank screen in TPOD video c) What?) and pilot is required to wait 14 seconds that TPOD video would appear so possible laser position can be refined if required.

 

What example the manufacturer says that what makes E2 self-designate capable, is the changes in the Maverick seeker, not in the TPOD or any other system.

The Maverick E version can be launched and self-designated, but you have problem that the seeker is not allowed to lose a laser spot (track) in any phase of flight. That is very easy to happen because the maverick will fly to between TPOD and target, blocking the LOS with its smoke, heat waves and by itself, and on that moment you have broke the E model seeker laser tracking and missile is lost. 

What makes the E2 self-designate capable is that E model safety seeker features has been modified so there is a timer how long the E2 seeker can have lost the tracking to laser spot. It has as well higher resolution seeker to spot the laser spot in weaker scenarios (mist, smoke, moisture, haze, heat waves, angles etc) to help maintain the track. As the Maverick missile is very slow missile, it means that launching aircraft is usually already past the target before Maverick hits it. This means that laser spot angles toward the Maverick seeker are rapidly changing weaker and weaker, and the Maverick E can not track that but brakelock. The Maverick seeker should be flying on the target that has maximum 45 degrees from the laser beam. Overflying the target or turning away can make the slow Maverick to fly outside of that 45 degree angle. 

 

The Maverick E2 seeker is the change why Maverick gets a "self-designation" capability. It is not in TPOD, or Sensor Select Switch modes or anything else. The restriction to not to self-designate the E maverick is because high change to it lose a track when the launching aircraft is designating it. It is not the procedure how missile is selected, activated or locked.

The E2 maverick use the same procedure as any other maverick, it is just a lot better seeker for the situation where ANY aircraft that is self-designating. 

E2 Maverick was not developed to overcome Harrier limitation to show two Maverick video feeds, it was developed to overcome the limitations in the E seeker resolution, sensitivity and self-destruct logic. 

 

Based to now what that document says and what is written multiple times by Razbam, there is now totally odd new a mechanisms and systems to overcome the Harrier avionics limitation with the TPOD and Maverick simultaneously and that new Maverick was developed just to integrate it directly with the Litening 4th gen version and make it capable to control Harrier weapons. 

 

I think that Razbam should recheck a whole thing now. As it doesn't make sense how IU (Interface Unit) is handling suddenly weapons.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Fri13

[Spirale]

Cristal clear Fri13, very good, rich, logic and well documented post : thumbs up^^

[Fri13]

@Zeus67 Sincerely still waiting a reply. But if you are in the holiday then please answer after that....

 

It is better get things done correctly once than revisit changes to redo parts, why Razbam should provide these evidences for questionable features.

 

[myHelljumper]

@Fri13 I not talking for Zeus, but we are absolutely not required to provide evidences for anything regarding our modules. The relations we have with SMEs and nature of information we have access to are incompatible with what you are asking for. This is no something that is expected of DCS devs in general.

 

As we showed recently, if something is not right we will fix it if we are provided sufficient information.

[kotor633]

vor einer Stunde schrieb myHelljumper:

@Fri13 I not talking for Zeus, but we are absolutely not required to provide evidences for anything regarding our modules. The relations we have with SMEs and nature of information we have access to are incompatible with what you are asking for. This is no something that is expected of DCS devs in general.

 

[Renko098]

Why is this information in an ED forum instead of in a properly updated manual? Just checked the pocket guide after the update and it still says, about laser Mavericks, "This missile is not available on initial Early Access release. It will be enabled in subsequent releases."

[myHelljumper]

6 hours ago, Renko098 said:

Why is this information in an ED forum instead of in a properly updated manual? Just checked the pocket guide after the update and it still says, about laser Mavericks, "This missile is not available on initial Early Access release. It will be enabled in subsequent releases."

 

We are working on the full manual right now, sorry that we were not able to release it sooner.

 

We will release it ASAP :).

[Kappa]

2 ore fa, myHelljumper ha scritto:

 

We are working on the full manual right now, sorry that we were not able to release it sooner.

 

We will release it ASAP :).

 

Thanks, it is really needed

[shagrat]

Am 16.7.2021 um 06:16 schrieb Spirale:

Cristal clear Fri13, very good, rich, logic and well documented post : thumbs up^^

Still a lot of assumptions and extrapolation... Despite being presented nicely.

 

There are multiple possible explanation I can come up with, why the E & F can't use Video "parallel" to the TPOD and the E2 can.

 

The simplest assumption is the E2 stays activated, after the initial activation, has a different internal power supply and produces a constant video feed, while the E/F need the power/signal from the pylon, which cuts out and deactivates it when the TPOD "hi-jacks" the video connection.

 

Same for the uncage button... It could simply be a command sent to the missile to uncage the seeker, it could be an electric current, with different voltages or polarity as is used for arming/setting bomb parameters...

 

All of this is just an assumption, as well, but seems plausible to me.

As for self-lasing or not, well, if I remember correctly, somebody mentioned the E needs a lock before it can be fired (maybe a safety to prevent misfire, or simply a requirement of the guidance system to not go wild). The E2 seems capable of lock on after launch while keeping a stable course of the rail.

Again, just an assumption from hearsay, but at least plausible to me.

 

We won't know for sure, unless Razbam or an SME can share some details with us, but if they can't, we can't stomp our feet and demand disclosure of these details.

 

MyHelljumper is right, this is not how this works... and honestly I am happy we get this much attention to detail.

[Kappa]

13 ore fa, shagrat ha scritto:

We won't know for sure, unless Razbam or an SME can share some details with us, but if they can't, we can't stomp our feet and demand disclosure of these details.

 

Yeh... 

 

We cannot ask them to justify everything they do, it is not only technically impossible but also conceptually wrong.
Unfortunately we must have faith. Of course, it is not easy given the past with RAZBAM but, I believe that right now there are no particular reasons to doubt.

[Shrike88]

On 7/21/2021 at 7:37 PM, Renko098 said:

Why is this information in an ED forum instead of in a properly updated manual? Just checked the pocket guide after the update and it still says, about laser Mavericks, "This missile is not available on initial Early Access release. It will be enabled in subsequent releases."

An updated manual ? lol Good luck.  Honestly anymore given the pace of actual document and contextual changes with our favorite jumpjet the last 3 years I would be happy with a bookmark of a catalog of online how-to and change video shorts like wags does for the hornet.  

Edited July 28, 2021 by Shrike88

[FupDuck]

Is there an up to date "DCS Harrier for dummies" manual or tutorial series somewhere out there? The Harrier is my first ever full fidelity module, and I gotta say I am having a hard time with learning the full capabilities of the jet, especially the guided weapons. The included tutorial missions are very good, but I've had several instances now where the buttons I'm told to press don't exist, presumably because they were moved or removed in a more recent update. In other cases, the tutorial triggers don't seem to get ...triggered. Unfortunately, for me the maverick tutorial was one of these, despite multiple attempts.

 

Anyways, some guidance for us struggling newbies who just bought the jet during the latest sale would be greatly appreciated, we're not all Fri13 caliber here!  

 

PS thank you devs for the opportunity to fly one of my all time dream planes! 

[waistcat]

On 7/14/2021 at 9:27 PM, Zeus67 said:

I have added a note regarding the iN RNG HUD advisory

Hello Sandmonkee,

Welcome to the Harrier. Try Chucks Guide https://chucksguides.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/DCS/DCS AV-8B Harrier Guide.pdf

 

[FupDuck]

6 hours ago, waistcat said:

Hello Sandmonkee,

Welcome to the Harrier. Try Chucks Guide https://chucksguides.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/DCS/DCS AV-8B Harrier Guide.pdf

 

Hi

Thanks for the advice, I have already been using the Chuck's guide, it is excellent. Unfortunately though it was last revised June 17, so I don't think it is up to date with the latest changes either?

 

EDIT: I stand corrected! I must have done something wrong the first time, I just followed the Chuck's guide again for the IR Mav's and it worked! Thanks @waistcat, and my apologies for the post asking for a "for dummies" guide when it pretty much already exists 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Sandmonkee