IR Maverick Lock

[stoop]

I am having trouble with having the IR maverick lock a target having been handed over from the TPOD.

 

As I then uncage the maverick, and press SS Depress x 2, then SS Forward, to get IRMV I hope to see the maverick cross hairs detect the target and close down around the target. Often it won't, despite obvious contrast between the target and background (T80's in empty Nevada desert - it doesn't get any better than that!)

So I can then try to 'force' the lock with TDC Down Action Position, but when I do that, rather than just locking down the target, the cross hairs jump right a couple of hundred meters which leaves me scrambling to reacquire the target.

Is this correct behavior? Any way around it?

[Ramsay]

On 7/11/2021 at 12:06 AM, stoop said:

Often it won't, despite obvious contrast between the target and background (T80's in empty Nevada desert - it doesn't get any better than that!)

DCS doesn't model contrast lock, rather it uses line of sight, distance and (some times) time of day to determine if an object is lockable.

 

IR Mav's used to lock at a max range of 7-5 nm with the sighting cross near the base of the target (I haven't tested recently).

 

On 7/11/2021 at 12:06 AM, stoop said:

Is this correct behaviour?

 

IRL IR Mav's can lock on shadows, etc., so difficulty in DCS is somewhat realistic but occurs for different reasons.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 12:06 AM, stoop said:

Any way around it?

 

Practice, digital zoom/fov and adjusting your attack azimuth usually helps.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Ramsay
Add that narrow fov seems to help

[Harlikwin]

Prepare for this to get worse with the IR update...

[Fri13]

8 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Prepare for this to get worse with the IR update...

Hopefully.

 

The reason why IIR Mavericks has been abandoned and changed back to daytime only CCD (from TV) seekers is pretty obvious for tracking purposes. And why laser is still the main one.

 

Hopefully the moisture simulation will change all that as well, so much shorter ranges for everything, a requirement for more accurate release angles for laser seekers relative to designator etc.

 

People will hate it at first after couple decades being able see, spot and launch things as wanted.

[Holbeach]

Using AGM-65F today, I'm getting 10 nm lock @ 15000', which is slightly better than before.

So I guess nothing's changed with the DMT/Mav F launch and missile itself.

 

..

Edited July 24, 2021 by Holbeach

[Harlikwin]

On 7/23/2021 at 10:27 AM, Holbeach said:

Using AGM-65F today, I'm getting 10 nm lock @ 15000', which is slightly better than before.

So I guess nothing's changed with the DMT/Mav F launch and missile itself.

 

..

 

Just U wait... I forsee tears...

 

[Holbeach]

On 7/25/2021 at 5:02 AM, Harlikwin said:

Just U wait... I forsee tears...

 

 

Do you know what changes are likely?

 

..

[Harlikwin]

4 hours ago, Holbeach said:

 

Do you know what changes are likely?

 

..

 

The way the current model works is something like. Put seeker FOV within X of "LIVE DCS TARGET" and then "lock" right. You can't lock "DEAD" targets. So I would assume thats gonna be a big change. And then turns out, a burning destroyed tank is a "brighter" IR source than a "living" tank, or a big hot rock etc. Also, those missiles were known to occasionally, "switch" targets. So stuff like that. It should also differentiate the more advanced seeker variants from the earlier models as well as they can do scene correlation.

 

Also you will have to boresight the mavs like the viper. I think thats coming to all Mav planes.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Harlikwin

[Bashibazouk]

I've been trying to get the harrier mavs to lock for a couple of months now. The image from the mav is really really dark, I can see smoke fine on the IR image, but seeing actual targets is nearly impossible - I've tried making the targets move a few metres in case it's something to do with the engines being off by default since a recent change, but no dice. The only way i can get them to lock is to eyeball it in the HUD (using the VV marker), get the mav square icon in the right place, dive straight at the target and keep clicking the TMS down/lock button on my hotas. Eventually I'll get the 'in range' text on the hud and the mav will fire. By this time, I'll usually under 2 miles and aiming straight for the target in a suicide dive. Naturally, this is useless for anything that shoots back. I've spent most of this time trying to research how to use the mavs, so I'm sure I do have the correct procedure (post the changes last year). I've uninstalled and reinstalled the harrier twice, which improved things once, for a single lock, where I could actually see the target on the screen but since then the screen is very dark, except for smoke (as in a smoke marker or a previously destroyed vehicle). But since then, it's back to the almost black screen. I've given up a few times and come back to try again but I think I'm at the end of my tether with this now, and gonna give up for good.

[Aernov]

Did you change MFD gain or contrast (or overall brightness) prior to uncaging IRMV? I often use the same MFD for EHSD and Mavs since you can select them from EHSD page in A/G master mode, and to make map and symbology clearly visible I set gain to almost minimum. If so, try increasing gain and playing with contrast. New DCS IR implementation makes stationary vehicles really hard to discern from background, thus bringing IRMV usability and range closer to reality, but I didn't encounter such severe range reduction, my Mavs usually locked from 8-6 nm, and in ripple subsequent missiles were immediately locking on uncage. Laser Mavericks can be better if you have the time to loiter a bit, they reliably lock on from 12-10 nm, and lock exactly what you are telling them to lock, not some tree or power line pole (seeker orientation is kinda wonky at the moment, it should center it's search pattern on designated point, but it can drift far from it in vertical axis, and doesn't reorient itself unless it is caged). Firing 4-missile ripple is not practical with LMAVs, but reliable precision and range are preferable usually.

[Bashibazouk]

Thanks. I thought I'd worked it out (uninstall and reinstall again) but still having problems. After I've 'locked' the TPOD, when I uncage the Mavs the seeker flies off to one side. At least I have some contrast/image on the screen now, so I assume I was struggling with some conflict with a mod or something as the uninstall/reinstall of the harrier seemed to fix my main problem. I guess I'm gonna do some training on the lasers now, by the sounds of everything, the IR mavs are just problematic with the harrier. I don't have this issue using the Hornet or Viper, though. Mind you, I haven't tested recently. Thanks for your input.

[FreightDog]

Glad I found this thread, I’ve invested days trying to get IR mavs to work reliably and predictably, but as the op says, on handover from Tpod, the (admittedly tiny) Ir signature of the target will be there under an open Mav targeting cross with no lock. SS fwd to designate IRMV then TDC down will cause the mav to fly off and lock onto something literally miles away in any direction, and the tiniest of attempted movement of the TDC will cause such a huge movement of the Mav targeting box it’s nigh on impossible to control. Sometimes I’ll get lucky and I’ll get a lock at ridiculously short range but by then I’m dead from a stinger or the rather deadly accurate fire from a BMP! I honestly cannot believe this weapon system is functioning as designed, although to be fair my AI wingmen can lock & rifle at far greater ranges than me!

Edited December 31, 2023 by FreightDog

[markturner1960]

Been revisiting mavericks in the Harrier today. They both have their issues, but generally today, the IR ones were more reliable. I was really struggling with getting the laser Mavs to find and lock a target, and that was after spending 5 or 10 minutes searching for targets that I knew their location, but could not find any combination of gain and contrast to make them visible……….cant be this difficult in reality can it? I am also flying the Apache a lot currently and the ease of operation and effectiveness of both Hellfire variants is a huge contrast…….

[Dogmanbird]

I think I'm having similar issues when using IR mavs on multiplayer servers, where I need to be within about 4 miles of the target before they'll release and sometimes won't pass the target from the tpod to mav, regardless of my altitude or speed.  If I create a single player mission, or use an existing mission part of DCS etc, I can be 9 miles out and they'll release quite reliably.

Is there a server option that sets the minimum target distance they can be transferred/released? 

Edited February 9 by Dogmanbird