AI SEAD does NOT follow Advanced Waypoint actions and does NOT follow waypoint altitude

[Shadow KT]

As the tittle says....

I have a flight of two, which I want to attack specific radars at specific points, but all they do is shoot at everything at the start of their flight, doing a couple of attacks, ignoring set actions and flight plan speed/altitude.

They start at their designated speeds and altitudes, but after completing their free for all attacks, they dive to the ground.

I've tried all ROE settings, none of them make a difference.

AI SEAD.trk

[Grimes]

The SEAD enroute task is still active. This allows the AI to attack any detected ground radar along their route at any point in time. Delete that task and the AI will follow their route and only attack the designated targets when told to. 

[Shadow KT]

1 hour ago, Grimes said:

The SEAD enroute task is still active. This allows the AI to attack any detected ground radar along their route at any point in time. Delete that task and the AI will follow their route and only attack the designated targets when told to. 

Tried that too, forgot to mention it. Same result.

 

 AI SEAD 2.trk

 

They still don't follow flight plan altitude/speeds either and dive for the deck. There is also this annoying turn they do.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Shadow KT

[Grimes]

That looks like reaction to threat behavior. Which is odd since there is only 1 thing that can actually kill them. Likely due to the SA-6 deciding to lock the flight even though it has no launchers in the group to attack with. 

 

However there is probably a couple bugs worth reporting here. 

1. With reaction to threat of evasive vertical maneuver the AI decides to extend when given the attack order even though they are within firing range. Doesn't occur with evade fire reaction.

2. Vertical maneuver is basically on the deck which severely nerfs the attack range of the HARM and the AI seem to ignore the new tasks even though they shouldn't. 

3. Need to check it, but fairly certain they break Line of Sight in a few spots on the deck so maybe the AI shouldn't be that scared to attack during the whole route. 

[Shadow KT]

1 hour ago, Grimes said:

That looks like reaction to threat behavior. Which is odd since there is only 1 thing that can actually kill them. Likely due to the SA-6 deciding to lock the flight even though it has no launchers in the group to attack with. 

 

However there is probably a couple bugs worth reporting here. 

1. With reaction to threat of evasive vertical maneuver the AI decides to extend when given the attack order even though they are within firing range. Doesn't occur with evade fire reaction.

2. Vertical maneuver is basically on the deck which severely nerfs the attack range of the HARM and the AI seem to ignore the new tasks even though they shouldn't. 

3. Need to check it, but fairly certain they break Line of Sight in a few spots on the deck so maybe the AI shouldn't be that scared to attack during the whole route. 

I've not tested with different reaction to threat settings, will do.

In the mean time, do you require or want me to do anything to get these things reported ?

[Exorcet]

1 hour ago, Shadow KT said:

I've not tested with different reaction to threat settings, will do.

Setting reaction to threat to "Evade fire" is pretty a much a given for me when I place any air unit on the map.

 

@Grimes Evade used to be the default setting, and I think it should go back to that, any chance of making this happen in a future update? Either that or evasive vertical needs a major overhaul because it makes the AI far too cautious, especially SEAD flights that should be fighting SAM's and not running from them.

[Shadow KT]

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

Setting reaction to threat to "Evade fire" is pretty a much a given for me when I place any air unit on the map.

 

@Grimes Evade used to be the default setting, and I think it should go back to that, any chance of making this happen in a future update? Either that or evasive vertical needs a major overhaul because it makes the AI far too cautious, especially SEAD flights that should be fighting SAM's and not running from them.

Yep, seems like either setting to no reaction or to evade makes them have a somewhat of an expected behavior.

[Grimes]

11 hours ago, Shadow KT said:

In the mean time, do you require or want me to do anything to get these things reported ?

I'll report em.

 

10 hours ago, Exorcet said:

@Grimes Evade used to be the default setting, and I think it should go back to that, any chance of making this happen in a future update? Either that or evasive vertical needs a major overhaul because it makes the AI far too cautious, especially SEAD flights that should be fighting SAM's and not running from them.

 

Coulda swore it defaulted to allow abort mission for the longest time. I did make a feature request a while back that was basically a way to customize default values for just about anything in the editor. Something like you place a SEAD flight and it has custom speed, altitude, and options set which could be different than if you placed a CAP flight or whatever. I'll definitely mention in the report on evasive vertical maneuver that it prevents AI from completing their objective. 

[Shadow KT]

Yeah, it has allow abort mission on by default, set as an action, when you select the SEAD role, but I always delete it, as from my experience, it just makes the AI go home, when they get spiked by radar.

[Exorcet]

4 hours ago, Grimes said:

Coulda swore it defaulted to allow abort mission for the longest time. I did make a feature request a while back that was basically a way to customize default values for just about anything in the editor. Something like you place a SEAD flight and it has custom speed, altitude, and options set which could be different than if you placed a CAP flight or whatever. I'll definitely mention in the report on evasive vertical maneuver that it prevents AI from completing their objective. 

I may have misremembered. I was sure that at some point I didn't used to have to set Evade Fire for every flight in my missions to get them to go near SAM's.

 

Being able to set defaults would work though, I'd welcome that change.

[Shadow KT]

Might have found another issues, which could be related to the issues described here:
 

 

[WilliamLink]

I'm facing a similar problem. I'm trying to set up a mission where there is a group of tanks driving from a FARP towards some small town with a 2-ship of Ka-50s escorting them, while in the opposing team, there would be a flight of 3 SU-25s coming to attack the whole group. The player's role is to prevent the Frogfoots from reaching the tanks and choppers. Simple mission, right?

However, the only group that's behaving as expected is the tank group. Neither the Sharks or the Froggies are following the Advanced Waypoint Options. The Frogfoots are completely ignoring the tanks and flying straight towards the player's home base and getting themselves engaged by the player's base SAMs. The Black Sharks take off from the FARP, and simply keep hovering in the air at 1000 ft, being dragged away by the wind and not caring at all about the tanks they're supposed to escort.

[dorianR666]

On 10/17/2021 at 3:14 AM, WilliamLink said:

I'm facing a similar problem. I'm trying to set up a mission where there is a group of tanks driving from a FARP towards some small town with a 2-ship of Ka-50s escorting them, while in the opposing team, there would be a flight of 3 SU-25s coming to attack the whole group. The player's role is to prevent the Frogfoots from reaching the tanks and choppers. Simple mission, right?

However, the only group that's behaving as expected is the tank group. Neither the Sharks or the Froggies are following the Advanced Waypoint Options. The Frogfoots are completely ignoring the tanks and flying straight towards the player's home base and getting themselves engaged by the player's base SAMs. The Black Sharks take off from the FARP, and simply keep hovering in the air at 1000 ft, being dragged away by the wind and not caring at all about the tanks they're supposed to escort.

depends whether you gave them enroute task or task for the ground attack waypoint action. you see, enroute task ("search and engage ...") requires the AI knowing about the targets existence from own sensors (or the hivemind ai "datalink"), otherwise theyll just continue. task ("attack ...") will reveal the targets to the ai and ai will not continue until theyre destroyed.

its explained in the manual. this isnt a bug, its intentional.

Edited October 19, 2021 by dorianR666

[WilliamLink]

11 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

depends whether you gave them enroute task or task for the ground attack waypoint action. you see, enroute task ("search and engage ...") requires the AI knowing about the targets existence from own sensors (or the hivemind ai "datalink"), otherwise theyll just continue. task ("attack ...") will reveal the targets to the ai and ai will not continue until theyre destroyed.

its explained in the manual. this isnt a bug, its intentional.

 

Thanks for the response.

I did a few other tests with this mission, and even got to the point of completely removing all of the Advanced Waypoint Options for the 2-ship of Black Sharks. Instead of telling them to Escort the tanks, I've actually set up a series of steerpoints nearby the path of the thanks. Result: No difference at all. The Black Sharks are still hovering still in the air, carried by the wind.

But I also found out that the Frogfoots were actually engaging the black sharks, which was the reason they we're flying directly into the threat envelope of the SAMs in my home base. In one of the tests, the Froggies indeed engaged the choppers in a couple of passes, while evading the SAM shots. The Black Sharks also managed to avoid the Froggies attacks, but they NEVER followed their pre-planned route, neither with or without Advanced Waypoint Options.

Then I decided to remove the Advanced Waypoint Options for the Frogfoots completely. Result: Now they follow half of their flight plan, but a couple of minutes before reaching the steerpoint where they would initiate their attack on the tanks and choppers, they just go "NOPE" and return to base.

[dorianR666]

10 minutes ago, WilliamLink said:

Thanks for the response.

I did a few other tests with this mission, and even got to the point of completely removing all of the Advanced Waypoint Options for the 2-ship of Black Sharks. Instead of telling them to Escort the tanks, I've actually set up a series of steerpoints nearby the path of the thanks. Result: No difference at all. The Black Sharks are still hovering still in the air, carried by the wind.

But I also found out that the Frogfoots were actually engaging the black sharks, which was the reason they we're flying directly into the threat envelope of the SAMs in my home base. In one of the tests, the Froggies indeed engaged the choppers in a couple of passes, while evading the SAM shots. The Black Sharks also managed to avoid the Froggies attacks, but they NEVER followed their pre-planned route, neither with or without Advanced Waypoint Options.

Then I decided to remove the Advanced Waypoint Options for the Frogfoots completely. Result: Now they follow half of their flight plan, but a couple of minutes before reaching the steerpoint where they would initiate their attack on the tanks and choppers, they just go "NOPE" and return to base.

send the miz, ill look at it on friday

[WilliamLink]

Test 2.miz Here you go.

In the previous version (Test 1) I had the Civil Aircraft Mod installed so there were some stuff from this mod in the mission. I removed them all to make sure you are able to load the mission without having to install the mod.

[JetJake76]

Hello,

I had the same problem with AI-controlled SEAD flight of Hornets, but then I figured out that all I needed was to move the proper waypoint (the one with Advanced Actions assigned) inside the SAM radar range. Otherwise they ignored their target and followed route to the next waypoint, no matter of the "Reaction to Threat" option. And I choose the ARM (Anti Radiation Missies) as the weapon for the SEAD flight.

Edited November 8, 2021 by JetJake76