TPod Slewing

[MrYeti]

I've hunted high and low for an answer but can't find one - hoping someone can come to my aid.

 

Problem - TPod Slewing too fast/far. I want to reduce the slew to be able to be more accurate

 

Equipmet - TM Hotas X

 

Current Mapping - I have the TPod U/D/L/R mapped to my one hat switch. To do this and have sensors mapped to Hat as well i use a Modifier (another button on throttle) therefore when slewing i hold down modifier and move TPod aiming poing using the hat.

 

Issue - When i move the aiming point it jumps massive distance making fine adjustmnets impossible. I've seen posts about adjusting the axis curve but the hat is a switch, not an axis.

 

How can i resolve this please - Help would be much apprechiated. 

[Fri13]

On 7/14/2021 at 11:07 PM, MrYeti said:

Problem - TPod Slewing too fast/far. I want to reduce the slew to be able to be more accurate

 

Are you controlling the TPOD, or are you controlling INS (HUD mode, Sensor Select Switch (SSS) Forward enters to INS mode and swap as well between INS and MAVerick)?

 

The harrier has currently incorrect INS implementation that allows you to move target designation (TD) in INS mode when the TD is outside of the HUD. 

So it is easy to be accidentally in the INS mode when you forget to enter TPOD special control mode by pressing SSS switch Down (not Aft) twice under 0.8 seconds period (you exit TPOD control mode same way). When you are in the TPOD mode, then TDC and SSS are assigned completely to TPOD and you can't control anything else until you exit the TPOD mode.

 

------------

 

The Harrier was not designed to have TPOD from the begin as it had DMT and when the Navigation FLIR was added, the Harrier became Night Attack capable, after being just a Day-Time capable. Then much later the TPOD was added to the Harrier, and it was only possible be added as emulating TPOD as Maverick missile. This is making severe limitation as only one video from Maverick is allowed to be open to computers, so you can't operate any maverick simultaneously with the TPOD. Why you have the SSS switch as special mode with 2x Down Press to command avionics to only operate the TPOD. 

 

As the TPOD is still operating as a sensor that can be continually slaved to Target Designation, you can move TPOD when in INS mode. 

The Harrier pilots are trained to use the DMT as primary sensor in N/A variant and Radar in the Plus variant in a method where SSS is used Forward or Aft based what the Pilot is looking. So when the Pilot looks the HUD, then pilot press SSS Forward to transfer TDC commands to HUD. When the pilot looks MFCD, then SSS Aft to transfer TDC to Radar or DMT.

 

The TPOD is "afterthought" and its integration is just a bonus for buddy-designation and observation etc. Even in the N/A Harrier the DMT sensor is the only sensor that can calculate the target altitude and so on slant range to target. The TPOD can't do it.

The ARBS sensor is extremely accurate (more accurate than a Radar variant radar ranging) when you have TV contrast locked (requires such) or Laser Spot Tracking (automatic) and you fly Harrier a while to give it angles to calculate slant range. But your altitude from ground has small error and it can calculate it from anything like trees, buildings or hill and not the terrain (not modeled correctly) and this error increases based your altitude, so there is larger error at flying 3000 ft than flying at 1000 ft. But the answer for this in Harrier is the barometric and gps altitude measurement to complete the bombing triangle. 

 

  

[Holbeach]

I never use the POD, prefering the unique DMT, but that was a nice straightforward explanation and easy to understand.

 

..

[Fri13]

8 minutes ago, Holbeach said:

I never use the POD, prefering the unique DMT, but that was a nice straightforward explanation and easy to understand.

 

You would be using TPOD mainly for observation/recon (VCR), video datalink communication with ground forces and designation for laser weapons for the flight.

It would be so nice to have AI capable to perform the attack on your painted target, or vice versa.

So example you could be designating target for wingman and then it uses DMT/LST to lock on target and then engage it with wanted weapon.

Or AI will designate it to you and you use DMT/LST to find designated target and then engage it.

 

Not everyone in the flight needs to have TPOD equipped. And if there is JTAC on the ground, then you don't need it at all as you have DMT to find their designated target and engage it with any weapon. Only challenge is that you can't visually ID target with DMT/TV at night, but JTAC is there for that reason anyways.

 

Considering how easy it is to use DMT to find a laser designated target (especially after JTAC has sent CAS call and you accept/reject it until wanted) by just SSS Aft and have it automatically search designation point (without TD it is 5 nmi ahead of you, unless you manually move Wide/Narrow scan box) at least inside HUD so if you know where to point your nose then you find the spot and have it designated, delivery and all automatically given to you so all you need to do is to just fly and release weapon.

 

Re-attack becomes easy as after the weapon release you are suppose to have the attack line drawn on EHSI as course line (not implemented), and anyways after DMT gimbal limit reached you get a DMT display swapped to EHSI compass for re-attack guidance automatically (not implemented). 

After each attack run the system swaps from DMT to INS automatically (not implemented) and only delivers a attack run to TD. There is no more automatic laser spot search or TV contrast tracking once you turn back toward TD inside DMT gimbal limits, but EHSI compass will turn back to DMT/TV video without contrast lock (open large crosshair) and you can decide do you need LST (press SSS Aft once to switch from INS -> LST) or do you need TV (SSS Aft twice) to sweeten target or track a moving target using TDC (there is mention in the manual that in INS mode if the TV is not open, then SSS Forward would open TV mode on TD when inside HUD).

 

The ARBS/LST mode is not available if proper laser code is not entered after Weight-On-Wheels sensor is released (take-off). This is not currently implemented but laser code is incorrectly entered as 1111 (should be only for Laser Mavericks and TPOD as default, but Mission Computer laser code is zeroed out), and so on DMT/LST is always available.

 

The DMT/LST mode as well requires pilot to transfer designation to TV or INS mode if Laser Designator is required to be switched off or moved long distances, as once the laser tracking is lost the DMT/LST returns to searching and TD is lost. This is not modeled at the moment but the TV is contrast locked and the LST will jump to where ever laser spot is instantly shifted. Sudden shift or LOS to dot blocked should be avoided situation and pilot needs to transfer designation before that. 

[MrYeti]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:14 AM, Fri13 said:

 

Are you controlling the TPOD, or are you controlling INS (HUD mode, Sensor Select Switch (SSS) Forward enters to INS mode and swap as well between INS and MAVerick)?

 

  

Thanks for the comprehensive response.

 

So assume Ethel scenario of a LGB release. Target is around wpt.

 

as I approach wpt I designate waypoint, possibly use the DVT to refine target poin and then switch to TPOD to further refine target. Issue being that it is OK to do an ‘area slew’ at decent speed when in wide view, however when in tight view/zoomed the slew speed remains rather same as in it covers the same distance. What should happen is that when zoomed the slew should move slower so as to enable accurate targeting. Currently it is very hit and miss if you can get accurate targeting when zoomed as any small movement on the slew moves the target point a large distance.

 

the more I think about it I think this could be bug/improvement requirement.
 

 

[Fri13]

2 minutes ago, MrYeti said:

 

as I approach wpt I designate waypoint, possibly use the DVT to refine target poin and then switch to TPOD to further refine target.

 

If you already have a TPOD then forget the DMT. You can even turn it off behind stick misc panel (in reality you don't turn it off as then DMT seeker is not locked in place electrically, making it possible be damaged regardless gimbal physical dampening protectors, but it is not modeled in Harrier) so you don't use it at all. 

 

Just select waypoint on EHSI, press DESG to designate it as target. Press slave in the TPOD page to get it there.

 

2 minutes ago, MrYeti said:

Issue being that it is OK to do an ‘area slew’ at decent speed when in wide view, however when in tight view/zoomed the slew speed remains rather same as in it covers the same distance. What should happen is that when zoomed the slew should move slower so as to enable accurate targeting.

 

I haven't used TPOD for couple updates now with a buttons, but speed did change when last time I used. There just wasn't a "acceleration" to begin the movement IIRC. But it was not fast that you can't do it.

 

 

2 minutes ago, MrYeti said:

Currently it is very hit and miss if you can get accurate targeting when zoomed as any small movement on the slew moves the target point a large distance.

 

Sounds you are in INS mode, as TPOD by default should be slaved to TD that INS is moving at high speed. So SSS Down 2x to get TPOD mode.

 

 

2 minutes ago, MrYeti said:

the more I think about it I think this could be bug/improvement requirement.

 

Just check you are not in INS designation.

[MrYeti]

@Fri13 Yep - you where absolutely correct, I was in INS mode. Just want and had. A play with it and wasn’t designating TPOD as SOI.

 

Once I do that I get the fine control at all zoom levels.

 

Thanks so much, I can now go and bomb with impunity!

[iLOVEwindmills]

There are still issues though with it being overly sensitive, mainly when all the way zoomed in. It doesn't seem to reduce slew rate when zoomed all the way in.

 

I have the use a way more shallow response curve on the slew compared to any other plane, and its still too sensitive when zoomed.

[Krez]

I have the TDC slew axes set like this.

Deadzone: 0

Saturation X: 100

Saturation Y: 30

Curvature: 10

 

[MorrisTheCat]

On 7/16/2021 at 3:14 AM, Fri13 said:

So it is easy to be accidentally in the INS mode when you forget to enter TPOD special control mode by pressing SSS switch Down (not Aft) twice under 0.8 seconds period (you exit TPOD control mode same way)

Thanks Fri13.  This explanation helped to address my issue and a few hours of frustration trying to figure out what was wrong with my TPOD slew!