Behavior of the pedals?

[peirof]

Hi, 

 

Another dude... 

 

 

On a real plane.... What is the behavior of the pedals?

 

If you push the right pedal the plane turns right, or as if it will push it, it turns left. 

 

 

Thanks

[eaglecash867]

Right pedal turns the plane right.

[No1sonuk]

Does anyone else wish that in the dim and distant past of aircraft development, they'd crossed over the damned rudder cables so that pushing on the right side turned the aircraft left?
It makes far more sense to me!

Edited July 24, 2021 by No1sonuk

[razo+r]

2 minutes ago, No1sonuk said:

Does anyone else wish that in the dim and distant past of aircraft development, they'd crossed over the damned rudder cables so that pushing on the right side turned the aircraft left?
It makes far more sense to me!

 

 

Well, thankfully in DCS you can invert the axis.

 

And while it does make sense at first, after flying an aircraft, the other way around makes more sense (It's not a bicycle where you push right and drive left)

Edited July 24, 2021 by razo+r

[No1sonuk]

6 minutes ago, razo+r said:

And while it does make sense at first, after flying an aircraft, the other way around makes more sense (It's not a bicycle where you push right and drive left)

I wonder if it would "make sense" if it was never like that in the first place.

I understand the original engineering reason for it - pressing the right pedal pulls the right cable, which pulls the right side of rudder, causing aircraft to turn right. This then became the standard, but I think the "bicycle" version is easier to understand.  After all, in a twist-stick system, do you twist clockwise to turn left?

I may try inverting my rudder axis to see it "push right, turn left" is easier for me to use.

[Deezle]

This often happens with people new to rudder pedals. I would not invert the axis, after not too long it will feel totally natural and you'll never think about it again.

[SharpeXB]

There was a crash here at the local airport, engine failure on takeoff in a twin engine. The pilot mistakenly corrected the yaw with the wrong pedal. The bicycle reflex may be a hard thing to unlearn. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by SharpeXB

[eaglecash867]

A couple of decades ago, when I was just learning on real aircraft, I was also driving a car with a manual transmission.  It took me a little while to not want to try to mash the left pedal to the firewall when I was bringing the aircraft to a stop (pushing in the clutch pedal).  Luckily I wasn't yet past learning to taxi before breaking myself of that habit.

Edited July 24, 2021 by eaglecash867

[Svsmokey]

Was thinking the same thing when i read that post . "Dead foot , dead engine" won't work with reversed controls , rather it would be "dead foot , dead pilot" ! And i generally don't steer a bicycle with my feet , so i don't get the premise . Wants to fly aircraft in a sim , wants reversed controls...Oh well , i read something weird here every day , but it's no skin off my nose how he sets up his aircraft .

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

There was a crash here at the local airport, engine failure on takeoff in a twin engine. The pilot mistakenly corrected the yaw with the wrong pedal. The bicycle reflex may be a hard thing to unlearn. 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Svsmokey

[SharpeXB]

29 minutes ago, Svsmokey said:

Was thinking the same thing when i read that post . "Dead foot , dead engine" won't work with reversed controls , rather it would be "dead foot , dead pilot" ! And i generally don't steer a bicycle with my feet , so i don't get the premise . Wants to fly aircraft in a sim , wants reversed controls...Oh well , i read something weird here every day , but it's no skin off my nose how he sets up his aircraft .

 

 

Yeah if you ever plan to fly a real airplane, don’t reverse the controls

[Brun]

Also don't get the bike comparison. I never feel like I'm pushing/pulling on either side of the handlebars, rather that I'm simply turning the thing that's directly attached to them.

 

What's next? Wanting to push the stick forward to go up?

[jonsky7]

7 minutes ago, Brun said:

Also don't get the bike comparison. I never feel like I'm pushing/pulling on either side of the handlebars, rather that I'm simply turning the thing that's directly attached to them.

 

What's next? Wanting to push the stick forward to go up?

 

It's what you instinctively do when you are going at speed, and is well documented when it comes to motorcycles, it's called counter-steering. Not to be confused with car counter-steering to bring a sliding back end back into line.

Nothing to do with the thread, just thought I'd mention it 

[Weegie]

 

 

LOL it's OFF TOPIC, but I've never noticed countersteering when riding a push bike (but probably do), perhaps it might be noticable on these dune types with the fattty tyres, but I've never come across it on a mountain bike.

 

As @jonsky7 said on any motorcycle from around the 80s onward with wider tyres, at speed (anything much above walking pace) you need to countersteer, you steer the wrong way. The bars feel stiff at speed so you push the way you want to go and the bike tips in that direction. Once you're at the desired turning radius you stop pushing, it's intuitive after a while, I'm hardly aware of it.

 

On a forum I go to there was huge discussion over countersteering at low speeds, but I don't subscribe to that theory at all and it makes no sense to me, either theoretically or practically when on the bike.

 

I have my rudders set as push in the direction of travel and still can't fly or taxi worth a damm

[Brun]

I've never done motorbikes (regretfully) but there's a pretty obvious difference in the physics: Typically a motorbike weighs several times that of the rider, whereas a bicycle more like 10%.

 

Countersteering in order to lean a motorbike into a turn isn't necessary on a bicycle because the same can be accomplished by simply shifting the rider's weight. I've tried countersteering and while the effect is certainly there I don't believe anyone does it instinctively.

[Weegie]

50 minutes ago, Brun said:

I've never done motorbikes (regretfully) but there's a pretty obvious difference in the physics: Typically a motorbike weighs several times that of the rider, whereas a bicycle more like 10%.

 

Countersteering in order to lean a motorbike into a turn isn't necessary on a bicycle because the same can be accomplished by simply shifting the rider's weight. I've tried countersteering and while the effect is certainly there I don't believe anyone does it instinctively.

 

You're quite right that's why I stated bikes after the 80s or so. Even motorcycles that were earlier used relatively skinny tyres and although probably still countersteering the rider was usually blissfully ignorant. On these bikes all you needed to do was lean like a bicycle and the motorcycle tipped into the turn.

 

When I got my first bike with fatter tyres, I couldn't get it to turn worth a damm. Then a friend told me about countersteering, at first I thought he was "having me on"

[No1sonuk]

18 hours ago, Brun said:

Also don't get the bike comparison. I never feel like I'm pushing/pulling on either side of the handlebars, rather that I'm simply turning the thing that's directly attached to them.

 

What's next? Wanting to push the stick forward to go up?

You're kind of indirectly agreeing with me!
If the elevator followed the rudder operation, pushing the stick forward would, indeed result in the aircraft going up!

Think of the bar the thing you push is connected to;
Push yoke, whatever, pitch stick rotates forward, aircraft rotates forward.
BUT
Push right pedal, rudder bar rotates left, aircraft rotates right.

Do you see how that's odd now?