correct as is AIM-120 missile. Reduced the missile guidance error to the target performing a barrel roll maneuver.

[Zergburger]

do a barrel roll.txt.acmi

https://www.mediafire.com/file/nyc58yx0tig9cuf/Server_1_Operation_Urban_Thunder_V6.2.1-20210722-213126.trk/file

 

ED's "barrel roll patch" is.....questionable to say the least. see ACMI, Track on mediafire.

 

 

[TheAncientOne]

And who are we supposed to watch?

[Zergburger]

amraam launched from 104th_ wiley at the flanker

[Breakshot]

The infamous roll miss in DCS MP can be attributed to the desync warp that happens when an aircraft exceeds a certain roll rate for a sustained amount of time. This is likely the cause of missiles missing due to "roll".

 

To be honest, in the Flankers it is hardly possible to reach that roll rate, hence doing rolls against missiles is a fruitless affair 99% of the time and would result in certain death. It is however sometimes possible to defeat a close range shot that way due to aiming error inherent for every missile. 120 suffers the LEAST of the missiles in this respect. Try that against say an ER or others and they would miss more often.

 

Instead of tweaking the 120 to be a death-ray in all scenarios, rather ED should look into netcode and desync improvements, IMHO.

[Zergburger]

On 7/24/2021 at 9:31 AM, Breakshot said:

The infamous roll miss in DCS MP can be attributed to the desync warp that happens when an aircraft exceeds a certain roll rate for a sustained amount of time. This is likely the cause of missiles missing due to "roll".

 

To be honest, in the Flankers it is hardly possible to reach that roll rate, hence doing rolls against missiles is a fruitless affair 99% of the time and would result in certain death. It is however sometimes possible to defeat a close range shot that way due to aiming error inherent for every missile. 120 suffers the LEAST of the missiles in this respect. Try that against say an ER or others and they would miss more often.

 

Instead of tweaking the 120 to be a death-ray in all scenarios, rather ED should look into netcode and desync improvements, IMHO.

thanks for the op-ed.... but this is a bug report.

[Breakshot]

2 hours ago, Zergburger said:

thanks for the op-ed.... but this is a bug report.

Where is the bug? that the 120 has an error probability of missing? Also would it not be a good idea to post a specific track and acmi in testing to demonstrate this so called bug? Not a huge acmi file from a crowded server? also posting a track from a loaded MP server is always gonna be prone to errors as tracks are notoriously unreliable.

 

Take a flanker/mirage or whatever and do some barrel rolls vs 120 and see your results? then perhaps post tracks? Try with all missiles and see whether its missile specific or its an MP code specific. etc etc.

 

I am sure I dont have to tell you this but ED isnt gonna chew through that as a valid bug report are they.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Breakshot

[dundun92]

On 7/24/2021 at 11:31 AM, Breakshot said:

It is however sometimes possible to defeat a close range shot that way due to aiming error inherent for every missile. 120 suffers the LEAST of the missiles in this respect. Try that against say an ER or others and they would miss more often.

That not quite correct; only the AIM-120, AIM-7, and SD-10 have a built in aiming error. The old API missiles do not have any built in error, any aiming errors are desync/inability of missile to manuever

[PVNK]

On 7/22/2021 at 6:52 PM, Zergburger said:

do a barrel roll.txt.acmi 3.28 MB · 14 downloads

https://www.mediafire.com/file/nyc58yx0tig9cuf/Server_1_Operation_Urban_Thunder_V6.2.1-20210722-213126.trk/file

 

ED's "barrel roll patch" is.....questionable to say the least. see ACMI, Track on mediafire.

 

 

 

I remember this fight, I think Whiley also said something like "nice blink", after I splashed him. I'm a noob with 300 hours in DCS, I don't even know how to do it correctly.

 

I'm not sure if you noticed it's not just a barrel roll, I also pull my rudder hard. I'm at high altitude, with pretty low energy, SPO shows a fast incoming, I'm out of options, but to roll and pull as many Gs as I can, thus I pulled the rudder. If I was only to roll, I'm pretty sure I'd get hit 100%.

 

I'm sorry to say, but If I was you, instead of calling this a "bug", I'd reevaluate your engagement, at least after the 120 didn't connect. IMHO this "bug" report really looks like a truck of salt considering other things...

 

When my missiles don't track or something else happens, I don't come to the Forum with a Tacview from the GS [lolz], as we all know how laggy it sometimes is and other variables on the server that can cause a desync or warp or whateverelse, and complaint about it, I'd rather work to get better and make better decisions next time. However, if I get to a point of a "bug" concern, I do testing with the team first to back up a "bug" with clear data for evaluation. It could've been an angle of attack that cause it to miss, it could've been a warp on the server, it could've been anything. 

 

I'd love to see a couple of Takviews where you guys can back this up with testing on stable server how 120 can be defeated with only a barrel roll...I mean that'd be just too easy.

 

 

104th = PVE now? 

 

Thanks, and much love!

Edited July 26, 2021 by PVNK

[Zergburger]

@BIGNEWY Hi im trying to report a bug, its aboiut aim-120s and barrel rolls. my thread is getting a bit side tracked, i think i need an adult.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

 

The issue that was fixed was target aircraft rolling on the longitude axis (aileron rolls) defeating missile to easily, I tested the fix myself.

 

What you see in the tacview here is correct as is, the target aircraft performs an evasive roll with a dive and releases counter measures. 

 

I dont think this is a bug sorry. 

 

----------------

 

Guys leave the MP bravado out of the bug reports please.

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Breakshot]

Hi, 
 
The issue that was fixed was target aircraft rolling on the longitude axis (aileron rolls) defeating missile to easily, I tested the fix myself.
 
What you see in the tacview here is correct as is, the target aircraft performs an evasive roll with a dive and releases counter measures. 
 
I dont think this is a bug sorry. 
 
----------------
 
Guys leave the MP bravado out of the bug reports please.
 
thanks
 
 
 
 
 
 

Thanks for setting this thread straight!

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[Breakshot]

That not quite correct; only the AIM-120, AIM-7, and SD-10 have a built in aiming error. The old API missiles do not have any built in error, any aiming errors are desync/inability of missile to manuever

Yes, I am well aware of the new vs old api. I guess what I was trying to say is I'm so used to ERs missing badly in so many stupid and easy conditions that if I made a bug report everytime that happens (especially if I would get subsequently splashed as a result ) I'd be flooding the forum by now!

And yes I get splashed plenty, its part of the MP experience. Let's face it, DCS MP will never be perfect. Learn, adapt and move on.

Its just cringy to see bug reports like this when all it really was is a case of salt more than anything.

As to PVNK, he's a new cadet in 51st and is still just undergoing his formation training. Yet people are spewing dirt on him because he upset someone in a fight?? Not cool. Some respect would be nice. Play hard but fair guys.

My 2c



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