NASAMS Feedback

[RocketmanAL]

First, thanks for the addition of a solid new SAM for Blue side. Always nice to get new units and this is an interesting one. My initial impressions, for all that they are worth, are very positive. I appreciate the work that went into getting this system added. Having said that, I hope that this is not the end of the development of the system as it has some cool potential that could be used. I will admit I'm not sure what year of NASAMS this is supposed to represent, so some of these capabilities might not actually be applicable. 

 

Multiple missiles

It's well documented that this system can use the AIM-9X in addition to the AIM-120, and has been tested with IRIS-T and Sea Sparrow missiles that I'm immediately aware of. This is a unique wrinkle that this system possesses and I'd love to see it represented in game some how. The solution now of having separate launchers with AIM-120B and AIM-120C is certainly an easy solution, but not really ideal as I believe the intent is to have different missiles on the same launcher. Perhaps for the launcher vehicles there is a rearm window where you select which missile goes in each canister. I think that would be a great tool for mission designers.

 

EO/IR Sight

In a few articles I've seen mention of an EO/IR sight functionality for the system. I'm not sure if this is a add-on for a later variant, or has always been a part of the system. However, right now the system is very vulnerable to destruction of the TAR. Having the EO/IR sight makes a lot of sense as a back-up acquisition capability, and enables passive targeting of aircraft up until missile launch.

 

CA Integration

This lends back to a previous post I made about improving CA integration into SAMs, I think this would be a prime candidate to set the base. This has a dedicated C2 vehicle with an offboard radar. Perfect chance to set the groundwork for operating SAMs with separate vehicles. The especially nice thing is that the missiles are fire and forget, so we just need to point them in the right direction and once they acquire they take care of themselves.

 

So the basic idea is that a player would command from the C2 vehicle. The irl NASAMS has a really nice digital display with maps and data linked targets in the air space. But even a simpler PPI would do. The player would need the radar feed from the radar, or if using the more modern displays just display of target tracks. Then the player selects which target(s) they want engaged. This system can automatically select a launcher to engage the target, and notify when launch parameters are met. Then the player presses a button to launch a missile, or the system can if there is an automatic mode. 

 

This framework could then be used for most of the other SAMs in DCS, making more controllable SAMs for players.

 

 

[AvgeekJoe]

All good ideas!

[Northstar98]

On 7/24/2021 at 5:09 PM, RocketmanAL said:

I will admit I'm not sure what year of NASAMS this is supposed to represent, so some of these capabilities might not actually be applicable.

 

Given that it has an AN/MPQ-64F1 Improved Sentinel RADAR, I'd say its a NASAMS II circa 2007-

 

On 7/24/2021 at 5:09 PM, RocketmanAL said:

Multiple missiles

It's well documented that this system can use the AIM-9X in addition to the AIM-120, and has been tested with IRIS-T and Sea Sparrow missiles that I'm immediately aware of. This is a unique wrinkle that this system possesses and I'd love to see it represented in game some how. The solution now of having separate launchers with AIM-120B and AIM-120C is certainly an easy solution, but not really ideal as I believe the intent is to have different missiles on the same launcher. Perhaps for the launcher vehicles there is a rearm window where you select which missile goes in each canister. I think that would be a great tool for mission designers.

 

Only thing I'll say here is that the system in its current form is Norwegian (the FDC and RADAR are both mounted on a Mercedes G-class 4x4), the launcher though isn't specific, so maybe they could tie into the country selected. What would be brilliant in this case is to have a HMMVW based version for the US.

 

What I definitely agree with is having just the one launcher unit, and using the rearm window to configure what it's carrying (also useful for having missions where the system starts with missiles already fired).

 

I haven't seen anything about AIM-9X or other missiles (seems to be just tests), so for the time being I'm okay with sticking to the MIM-120B and MIM-120C-5 (they shouldn't have an AIM designation as this denotes a missile launched from an aircraft - even if they're identical).

 

On 7/24/2021 at 5:09 PM, RocketmanAL said:

EO/IR Sight

In a few articles I've seen mention of an EO/IR sight functionality for the system. I'm not sure if this is a add-on for a later variant, or has always been a part of the system. However, right now the system is very vulnerable to destruction of the TAR. Having the EO/IR sight makes a lot of sense as a back-up acquisition capability, and enables passive targeting of aircraft up until missile launch.

 

By my reckoning we have NASAMS II, so yes the MSP500 EO/IR system (which has 3rd generation IR and TV, as well as laser-rangefinder (LRF) would be appropriate for it and once we have that and the TCC (Tactical Control Cell), we'll have a complete set of battery components.

 

On 7/24/2021 at 5:09 PM, RocketmanAL said:

CA Integration

This lends back to a previous post I made about improving CA integration into SAMs, I think this would be a prime candidate to set the base. This has a dedicated C2 vehicle with an offboard radar. Perfect chance to set the groundwork for operating SAMs with separate vehicles. The especially nice thing is that the missiles are fire and forget, so we just need to point them in the right direction and once they acquire they take care of themselves.

 

So the basic idea is that a player would command from the C2 vehicle. The irl NASAMS has a really nice digital display with maps and data linked targets in the air space. But even a simpler PPI would do. The player would need the radar feed from the radar, or if using the more modern displays just display of target tracks. Then the player selects which target(s) they want engaged. This system can automatically select a launcher to engage the target, and notify when launch parameters are met. Then the player presses a button to launch a missile, or the system can if there is an automatic mode. 

 

This framework could then be used for most of the other SAMs in DCS, making more controllable SAMs for players.

 

Absolutely agreed.

 

 

Though, if I may, there are a few other things I'd like to mention:

• Different liveries/camouflage, particularly for the launcher, there's the green there is currently, there's also a camouflage scheme similar to what we have on the I-HAWK PIP Phase I, there's also a similar camouflage scheme but one that's anglular. At the moment we only have the green, and the green with some snow on it.
• Different variants of the system, for instance a HMMVW based system as mentioned above, which would be suitable for the US, as well as maybe a towed version of the RADAR. Also, If we get an AN/TPQ-36A, and the NTAS (which is a 2nd generation IR + LRF system) we could also have NASAMS I, suitable for the mid-90s, to around 2007/2008.
• Shouldn't RWRs have the system show up as '64' for the AN/MPQ-64? The real AN/MPQ-64 isn't exclusively used for NASAMS (though that seems to be the main application), it's also used in the HAWK XXI SAM system.
• In DCS, all of the components have animation arguments to support being deployed and being moved, including the launcher. The only thing missing is an appropriate truck to transport the launcher, and functionality to support units being loaded/unloaded onto trucks (which also relates to other systems, as well as towing).

Edited July 26, 2021 by Northstar98

[Tank50us]

23 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

In DCS, all of the components have animation arguments to support being deployed and being moved, including the launcher. The only thing missing is an appropriate truck to transport the launcher, and functionality to support units being loaded/unloaded onto trucks (which also relates to other systems, as well as towing).

 

Personally, I think the best solution to this issue, is just to mount it on a vehicle and call it a day.

 

Just have the thing 'deploy' when it enters 'red' condition state, and the problem should be solved. This would also ensure the launcher is nice and level if the truck parks on a hill.

[Silver_Dragon]

MSP500 EO/IR

https://www.kongsberg.com/es/kda/products/defence-and-security/integrated-air-and-missile-defence/nasams-air-defence-system/nasams-electro-optical-sensor/

 

Has some missiles capable on NASAMS as AMRAAM A/C-5/C-7/D, ESSM, AIM-9X-II. NASAMS 2 has capable to coordinate 12 missile launchers.
https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/national-advanced-surface-to-air-missile-system-nasams/

 

AMRRAM-ER was tested on NASAMS on 2021
https://www.raytheonmissilesanddefense.com/capabilities/products/amraam-missile

 

 

 

https://www.kongsberg.com/es/kda/products/defence-and-security/integrated-air-and-missile-defence/nasams-air-defence-system/

https://www.kongsberg.com/es/kda/products/defence-and-security/integrated-air-and-missile-defence/nasams-air-defence-system/rayhteon-missiles/