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DLSS is now free


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Do you want DLSS?  

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  1. 1. Do you want DLSS?

    • Yes
      210
    • No
      25


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Just now, SkateZilla said:

If you understood the history abd proof of the DirectX API CPU overhead problem, you would see that its already been proven.

You mean the thing that wasn't being disputed to begin with, and which therefore doesn't need to be proven because that would be completely redundant?

 

Just now, SkateZilla said:

Has nothing to do with rendering resolution, its about draw calls period, objects, textures, shaders etc.

In other words, we can't even assume that there is no way to pick settings that don't incur the same amount of overhead, which would also solve the problem. And then, with the CPU no longer being backed up, DLSS gets (even more) room to breathe and do its best to compensate for these settings.

 

6 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

DLSS or FSR, can do whatever it wants, but will still have to wait for the scene frame to be rendered before it can fill in the data. It will just be another function tacked onto the back half of the rendering pipeline that will still sit odle and wait for DX API functions to be processed.

Conversely, once it gets what it needs, it's something that can therefore putter along in the background and do some work (that previously couldn't be done) while the CPU busies itself with whatever is needed for the next frame. Basically, free extra quality.

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If the FPS Bottleneck isnt caused by Resolution, then Upscaling wont fix it.

 

You can Run DCS at 640x480 and it will still hit that same object wall and FPS will be the same in highly populated scenes.

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13 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

If the FPS Bottleneck isnt caused by Resolution, then Upscaling wont fix it.

…which wasn't the claim to begin with.

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All the implementations of DLSS I've seem suffer from ghosting in a moving image.  In one case a source at 160FPS looks like complete A** with DLSS because of the smearing/ghosting of dark objects over light backgrounds.

 

No...  it's not my monitor :)...

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2 minutes ago, M1Combat said:

All the implementations of DLSS I've seem suffer from ghosting in a moving image.  In one case a source at 160FPS looks like complete A** with DLSS because of the smearing/ghosting of dark objects over light backgrounds.

 

No...  it's not my monitor :)...

DLSS2.0?

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6 hours ago, M1Combat said:

All the implementations of DLSS I've seem suffer from ghosting in a moving image.  In one case a source at 160FPS looks like complete A** with DLSS because of the smearing/ghosting of dark objects over light backgrounds.

 

No...  it's not my monitor :)...

Not my experience at all

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  • ED Team

Official statement of implementation for DLSS.

 

Dear Customers,

 

Thank you for all the comments and thoughts written in this thread about the topic and your care and support of DCS.

We made a first look at the technology and tried it with DCS. We didn't expect it to work out of the box and we will look at the possibility to use it later.

 

Please always have in mind that any new approach or technology delivered by graphic cards manufacturers are tried by Eagle Dynamics development team and we always stay on top of such topics to improve and extend Eagle Dynamics Graphic Engine.

 

Sincerely,

Chief Operating Officer

Kate Perederko

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13 hours ago, despinoza said:

Not my experience at all

 

Fine...  but I've made that comment in other places and had several people mention that it is their experience as well.  I'm not trying to say it shouldn't be attempted... UNLESS it's still NVidia only.  If it is (and I run a 2080 for reference...) then F that use the AMD solution.  Even if it's a little slower.

 

This industry needs specific competition.  Not all out competition.  I know...  seems odd right?  I've been around long enough to have watched what proprietary tech does to the gaming industry.  It's not pretty for the consumer.  I get that it can't always be avoided when it comes to hardware implemented solutions...  I understand.  But it STILL hurts the consumer and the better side of competition in the industry even when it's unavoidable.

 

Funny thing...

 

Back when NVidia was the underdog in the graphics industry...  they made their name by being on the open side of the industry...  My how times change eh??

19 hours ago, Tom Kazansky said:

DLSS2.0?

 

Not sure but it's a current thing with a very popular title I play to shoot tanks...  And it's not World of Tanks...

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I don't see why it shouldn't be supported just because it is Nvidia only, they put the resources into developing it and I imagine the vast majority of DCS players use a Nvidia Card.

 

Quite simply it is a non issue, if you don't like a companies antics don't buy there products.


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I would wait till after Vulkan is finished and deployed.

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Dear chief operating officer, if you care on improving and extending the Eagle Dynamics Graphic Engine you have to seriously take into consideration the approach Asobo studio took with Microsoft flight simulator. They reworked the engine from scratch and managed to reduce CPU and memory loads while doubling the performance.

And all that while modelling the whole world.

 

Please optimize the game more as this will give the opportunity to more people being able to play it properly. 🙏🙏🙏

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On 7/26/2021 at 7:28 AM, cfrag said:

 

I believe most who say 'no' are saying 'please not vendor-specific'. I'd love to have DLSS-type tech for me (as I, too, am flying VR, and the temporal AA 'no shimmer' feature alone is to kill for). But as someone who got burned one time too many with vendor-bound features I now advocate waiting until an independent standard emerges. If you don't agree - well, I still have some 3dfx Voodoo-bound titles lying around in my discard pile for you (those that did not provide an OpenGL version as fallback). 

 

This is what ticks it for me, although I currently use an Nvidia GPU.

It'd be a yes from me if it was FSR (which works on all GPUs).

It'd be a yes for DLSS a implementation after FSR (since that only works on Nvidia cards).
It's a no because it's currently only saying DLSS, which is only for Nvidia cards.

 

  

On 7/29/2021 at 10:06 PM, SkateZilla said:

I would wait till after Vulkan is finished and deployed.

Vulkan is on the table since years now and fans already added FSR in VR mods, to outside programs etc.
Both FSR and DLSS are API agnostic and both DX as well as Vulkan work so that shouldn't be a problem.


Edited by Madfish
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On 7/31/2021 at 11:56 AM, Pandelas said:

Dear chief operating officer, if you care on improving and extending the Eagle Dynamics Graphic Engine you have to seriously take into consideration the approach Asobo studio took with Microsoft flight simulator. They reworked the engine from scratch and managed to reduce CPU and memory loads while doubling the performance.

And all that while modelling the whole world.

 

Please optimize the game more as this will give the opportunity to more people being able to play it properly. 🙏🙏🙏


They Fixed a Major Memory leak that was causing that, it wasnt an engine re-write from scratch.

NOBODY, Not ED, Not MS, Not UbiSoft, is going to re-write and engine from scratch in a matter of months,

Plus they knew about the memory leak awhile back, as it was causing Xbox Problems for Xbox testers.

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On 7/29/2021 at 11:51 AM, M1Combat said:

 

Fine...  but I've made that comment in other places and had several people mention that it is their experience as well.  I'm not trying to say it shouldn't be attempted... UNLESS it's still NVidia only.  If it is (and I run a 2080 for reference...) then F that use the AMD solution.  Even if it's a little slower.

 

FSR can be tested with a VR mod and it`s ok, but DLSS is far superior. Since both are free then why not have both?

 

beside, NVidia users are almost 80% of the market according to steam.

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On 8/1/2021 at 1:59 PM, Madfish said:

This is what ticks it for me, although I currently use an Nvidia GPU.

It'd be a yes from me if it was FSR (which works on all GPUs).

It'd be a yes for DLSS a implementation after FSR (since that only works on Nvidia cards).
It's a no because it's currently only saying DLSS, which is only for Nvidia cards.

 

  

Vulkan is on the table since years now and fans already added FSR in VR mods, to outside programs etc.
Both FSR and DLSS are API agnostic and both DX as well as Vulkan work so that shouldn't be a problem.

 


I meant finish Vulkan first, then put the addon's to the API.

No point in writing a DirectX 11 Addon now where it will have zero gains, when you'll have to re-write it for Vulkan later

 

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4 hours ago, despinoza said:

FSR can be tested with a VR mod and it`s ok, but DLSS is far superior. Since both are free then why not have both?

 

beside, NVidia users are almost 80% of the market according to steam.

 

Because having two vendor-specific libraries in your code that aim to achieve the same thing (AA) not only breaks abstraction (you need to find out what GPU is installed to run the correct lib), it quadruples the effort in release/regression testing whenever there is a change in *any* of the parts (either lib, trunk). Plus, it's prudent to remember that whenever something is "free" for you, you are not the customer. These libs are free in that they are royalty-free for ED, but ED have to integrate and maintain release compatibility, and ED ties all their clients (you and I and every one else) to the specific vendor's technology. That seldom ends well (witness my pile of 3dfx voodoo-specific titles gathering dust. Oh, and remember nVidia Hairworks? Yeah...).

 

A much better path would be to wait until an abstract, vendor independent API layer is available (similar to OpenGL, Vulcan etc.) emerges and then use that.

 

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8 hours ago, cfrag said:

 

Because having two vendor-specific libraries in your code that aim to achieve the same thing (AA) not only breaks abstraction (you need to find out what GPU is installed to run the correct lib), it quadruples the effort in release/regression testing whenever there is a change in *any* of the parts (either lib, trunk).

 

shouldn't be ED who decides that? Besides, there's a few games already using both

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17 minutes ago, despinoza said:

shouldn't be ED who decides that? Besides, there's a few games already using both

 

They should indeed. I'm just opining here why they may decide not to. In my mind t's a cost/benefit question. Myself, I'd be very happy indeed if they just went with NVidia's solution or implemented both. I did not realise your question was rethorical. 

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10 hours ago, cfrag said:

Because having two vendor-specific libraries in your code that aim to achieve the same thing (AA) not only breaks abstraction (you need to find out what GPU is installed to run the correct lib), it quadruples the effort in release/regression testing whenever there is a change in *any* of the parts (either lib, trunk). Plus, it's prudent to remember that whenever something is "free" for you, you are not the customer. These libs are free in that they are royalty-free for ED, but ED have to integrate and maintain release compatibility, and ED ties all their clients (you and I and every one else) to the specific vendor's technology. That seldom ends well (witness my pile of 3dfx voodoo-specific titles gathering dust. Oh, and remember nVidia Hairworks? Yeah...).

 

Yes exactly.

 

Proprietary tech is bad.  I don't care how good it is...  it's bad.  I've been around for far too many of these to jump on the pop bandwagon that just prioritizes possible frame rate gain over all else.  There are more important things...  like consumer friendly API solutions :).

 

 

It's quite ironic that NVidia basically gained their superior market position by espousing (and acting) the virtues of an open API type ecology...  But NOW...  now that they're the top dog...

 

They change their tune :).

 

Yeah...

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20 hours ago, despinoza said:

FSR can be tested with a VR mod and it`s ok, but DLSS is far superior. Since both are free then why not have both?

 

beside, NVidia users are almost 80% of the market according to steam.


I'd hardly call their survey accurate.

  

5 hours ago, M1Combat said:

 

Yes exactly.

 

Proprietary tech is bad.  I don't care how good it is...  it's bad.  I've been around for far too many of these to jump on the pop bandwagon that just prioritizes possible frame rate gain over all else.  There are more important things...  like consumer friendly API solutions :).

 

 

It's quite ironic that NVidia basically gained their superior market position by espousing (and acting) the virtues of an open API type ecology...  But NOW...  now that they're the top dog...

 

They change their tune :).

 

Yeah...

 


Guys, 3DFx was 100% Proprietary.. and where are they now?...


Edited by SkateZilla

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1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:


Guys, 3DFx was 100% Proprietary.. and where are they now?...

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Tippis said:

 

Weeeeell😛



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1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:


 

 


NVIDIA? emoji848.png
What goes around, comes around? emoji6.png

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3DFX filed for bankruptcy, and was purchased out of Bankruptcy by nVidia, simply to get access rights to SLi, and other IP, 3DFx name and support died with that purchase.

They were acquired by a company after they failed in their proprietary direction, seems nVidia, when they acquired those technicians adopted their proprietary ideals.

The main reason for 3DFx's downfall was refusing to adopt open standard (mainly DirectX), and basically kept their GFX Cards running only OGL or Glide, the Launch of Voodoo 3 was 4 years too late to fix the problem, by that point, 3DFx Faithful had already moved to ATi or nVidia.

Same with Ageia and PhysX.

And when support for that proprietary tech/api is gone, you're stuck with software that's crippled until you re-write it.


Edited by SkateZilla
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