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any news on sim thread multi-threading?


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14 hours ago, draconus said:

Yeah, I don't think so. (btw, why only 4 years?) Even in this niche of niche most people fly casually, autostart their aircraft and just want to blow stuff. I doubt more than 5% can do a cold start, AAR and Case I. So no - some performance problems in VR, simple ATC or lack of DC is not the sale breaker - it's just rare for people to really want to become serious military pilots... as IRL.

Yeah well you can guess all you want. MSFS sells and you don't even get to blow stuff up.... and cold starts don't mean <profanity>. Most people don't care about starting up the aircraft. I learn all my modules because I'm interested in it. I was much more interested in learning THE REST of the module... not how to turn the Battery, APU, and Idle Throttles.. Half the people who fly only use FC3 jets anyways, and a lot of them have VR. Considering you can get a Quest 2 for around 60 dollars more than TrackIR now... I'd say it's a pretty good portion of the base. 

Also, we are talking about multicore performance first and foremost which in fact helps everyone.. 

 

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4 hours ago, HoBGoBLiNzx3 said:

MSFS sells and you don't even get to blow stuff up.... and cold starts don't mean <profanity>. Most people don't care about starting up the aircraft.

That's what I said so we do agree that pretty and smooth gfx wins clients over complex realistic simulation.

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1 hour ago, draconus said:

we do agree that pretty and smooth gfx wins clients over complex realistic simulation.

Isn't that universal for all games? There are tons of blockbuster titles that revel in beautiful, stunning graphics, yet are as empty in content as cotton candy. If you don't have content, the old game publisher adage goes, apply lipstick liberally. Tons of it. Glossy, shiny sells. An empty husk of a game (e.g. Avengers, Death Stranding, Mass Effect Andromeda, Duke Forever) with pretty gfx still sells well. 

That being said, it never hurts if you have great content and great graphics. And that's what we are hoping for, already knowing that we have a content King in DCS.

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1 minute ago, cfrag said:

Isn't that universal for all games? There are tons of blockbuster titles that revel in beautiful, stunning graphics, yet are as empty in content as cotton candy. If you don't have content, the old game publisher adage goes, apply lipstick liberally. Tons of it. Glossy, shiny sells. An empty husk of a game (e.g. Avengers, Death Stranding, Mass Effect Andromeda, Duke Forever) with pretty gfx still sells well. 

That being said, it never hurts if you have great content and great graphics. And that's what we are hoping for, already knowing that we have a content King in DCS.

Agreed again. What it makes so urgent for me with DCS is, I have no other games where I feel that my PC should be 2-4 times faster (in VR) than it is. And 4000 EUR/$ Hardware can't do what I need.

Without DCS (in VR) I wouldn't even know about frametimes for CPUs and GPUs.

(btw I hope ED does not use the performance gain of multithreading and Vulkan to fill it up with many new performance killing fancy stuff, but that's another story...)

 

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1 hour ago, Tom Kazansky said:

(btw I hope ED does not use the performance gain of multithreading and Vulkan to fill it up with many new performance killing fancy stuff, but that's another story...)

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement!! (and assume ED will too 😉)

I secretly hope that I can extend my 8700K's life when multi-threading is introduced. Right now, hardware can't keep up with the software (at least not VR) 😋

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5 hours ago, Tom Kazansky said:

I hope ED does not use the performance gain of multithreading and Vulkan to fill it up with many new performance killing fancy stuff

This is exactly what will happen. Unless you imagine the game’s development frozen in 2022 for all time. 

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17 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

This is exactly what will happen. Unless you imagine the game’s development frozen in 2022 for all time. 

It does not need to freeze for all-time. I just wish for a matching groth between hardware and software.

But I know myself that this is just naive. Because developers will always try to get the best 2D quality possible. So VR will always be suffering.

I just hope for a giant leap for VR users with multithreading, Vulkan ( DLSS3, 2022-CPUs...). Ok I'm still in naive mode, for the next "12K" VR headsets will shredder all of those efforts to similar performance. Hope I'm wrong.

edit: I want to add that it is not easy at all to get all if that matched. Developers are deciding today what we'll get in 3 years and more.


Edited by Tom Kazansky
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24 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

It does not need to freeze for all-time. I just wish for a matching groth between hardware and software.

Sure there could be a little more balance but games will always demand the most from hardware and keep evolving to exploit that. If hardware becomes more capable then the game will become more demanding to make use of it. 

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23 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

It does not need to freeze for all-time. I just wish for a matching groth between hardware and software.

But I know myself that this is just naive. Because developers will always try to get the best 2D quality possible. So VR will always be suffering.

I just hope for a giant leap for VR users with multithreading, Vulkan ( DLSS3, 2022-CPUs...). Ok I'm still in naive mode, for the next "12K" VR headsets will shredder all of those efforts to similar performance. Hope I'm wrong.

Until proven differently for DCS, I'm naive-ing shoulder to shoulder with you :thumbup:

Us VR users must think in glass-half-full terms, or you won't make it 😅

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26 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

But I know myself that this is just naive. Because developers will always try to get the best 2D quality possible. So VR will always be suffering.

I fear that’s always going to be the case as well. 

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51 minutes ago, nukeproof said:

This ^^^^^^ sells.

those numbers are padded,

I know users with similar setups that gain maybe 10-15 fps.

nVidia saying DLSS 3.0 doubles FrPS is just b.s.

 

Some of the reviewers intentionally went from DX11 to DX12 w/ RTX/DLSS on.

 

Plus DLSS 3.0 is only for RTX4xxx
 


Edited by SkateZilla
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36 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

those numbers are padded,

I know users with similar setups that gain maybe 10-15 fps.

nVidia saying DLSS 3.0 doubles FrPS is just b.s.

 

Some of the reviewers intentionally went from DX11 to DX12 w/ RTX/DLSS on.

 

Plus DLSS 3.0 is only for RTX4xxx
 

 

No doubt Skate, I don't think anyone in DCS will be expecting double the frame rate. However, you know exactly the merits of vulkan and multithreading. As I've agreed many times before on your opinions on the matter. DLSS3.0 will however be much better with it than it is without running it in native, with missing or poorly done lods, shadow texture samples are through the roof, the lighting and other methods used make VR a one trick pony but an amazing one.. It's the multicore + vulkan + (what ever features they are now able to add like DLSS3.0, RTX, etc) If DCS gives you the goods, and you can't run it, that's on the buyer. People keep brushing over the simple fact that MSFS is putting all this out in double the time DCS is and the amount of time they claim they have been working on it.. Sure, unless your there working on the project we don't "know" how hard it is to debug all of the errors and get it running smoothly.. buy I can tell you that a whole year of debugging means not enough guys are doing it. If only the rest of us could say,  When you need something done, hire more, or better people. Make deadlines, and enforce them. This is why we have a BETA version in the first place. In any other profession that I can think of, this wouldn't fly. Nasa would have 3 more rovers built by the time this <profanity> drops.

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AMDs new drivers finally enable RayTracing on Vulkan,

Plus there's FSR.

DLSS Predicts vectors for up sampling frames, DCS would be a nightmare for DLSS, trying to predict all the moving objects vector paths.

FSR on the other hand, would not have a stroke as it does not use vector predictions etc.

The FS2020 Team is huge


Edited by SkateZilla
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Just now, SkateZilla said:

AMDs new drivers finally enable RayTracing on Vulkan,

Plus there's FSR.

DLSS Predicts vectors for up sampling frames, DCS would be a nightmare for DLSS, trying to predict all the moving objects vector paths.

FSR on the other hand, would not have a stroke as it does not use vector predictions etc.

I don't really mind what they use... they just need to use SOMETHING. 

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Just now, HoBGoBLiNzx3 said:

I don't really mind what they use... they just need to use SOMETHING. 

They need to finish Vulkan + MC before any more GFX Features are added.

DX11 is at it's limit, adding more stuff is just going to lower performance even more.

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Just now, SkateZilla said:

They need to finish Vulkan + MC before any more GFX Features are added.

DX11 is at it's limit, adding more stuff is just going to lower performance even more.

I 100% agree with that. That's what the thread was for, my point was that it was released because MSFS already released that a year ago... 

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2 minutes ago, HoBGoBLiNzx3 said:

Yeah, but DCS doesn't give you the option of running DLSS 2.0 either... That is available on every RTX card I believe. Possibly even the GTX cards. 

DLSS is only on RTX20/30 Cards, GTX 10/16 users cannot use DLSS.

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6 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

DLSS is only on RTX20/30 Cards, GTX 10/16 users cannot use DLSS.

Fair enough, anything older than a 20 series will be outdated in the gaming world here very soon anyways (I'm on one and have to upgrade too..) but to step away from graphical technology and back to it's core functions, as you said, needs to happen.. I've been playing less and less and it's not something that is because of the work on the actual game play, it's getting it to run properly... 

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15 hours ago, HoBGoBLiNzx3 said:

Fair enough, anything older than a 20 series will be outdated in the gaming world here very soon anyways...

You might want to look more at performance rather than date of release or marketing series name.

Ex. 1080Ti is still powerful card, pretty decent even for VR, depending on headset. It may live much longer with DCS future core updates while still being better than newer 2060, 2070, 3050 and 3060.

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21 minutes ago, draconus said:

You might want to look more at performance rather than date of release or marketing series name.

Ex. 1080Ti is still powerful card, pretty decent even for VR, depending on headset. It may live much longer with DCS future core updates while still being better than newer 2060, 2070, 3050 and 3060.

I'm still using a 1080ti and can confirm this
DCS is still properly playable and enjoyable in combination with my Reverb G1. Although my mind will probably be blown when performance allows it to notch up the GFX (I obviously had to reduce several settings over the past few years to still have enough performance)

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System specs:

 

i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU

HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM

 

~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH

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