Are modern helicopters difficult to fly?

[Lazerhawk]

Hello,

 

I mainly fly fixed wing aircraft like A-10C, F/A-18C and P-51D.

I also tried to learn the UH-1H Huey at some point but I found it very difficult to control the aircraft. Counteracting the torque with the pedals especially gave me a hard time.

 

I know that practice makes perfect but I was wondering if more modern helicopters, like Apache or Hind, are easier to learn when it comes to the actual flying and maneuvering?

 

Best regards!

Edited July 30, 2021 by Lazerhawk

[Maduce]

Not really, just like anything else it takes practice. The biggest challenge for me is transitioning from forward flight to hovering or landing.  Trimming is my friend. Lots of videos out there to help get you stated.  I would highly recommend it! Still love fixed wing more but low level missions are a blast in a helicopter. 

[NeedzWD40]

Every helicopter is different, but most modern helicopters are a bit easier to fly than older ones. The UH-1 is actually pretty easy compared to smaller and lighter helicopters, but within DCS the easiest is probably the Ka-50. Thus far I've been having the most fun with the Mi-24, but it feels more like a STOL aircraft than a helicopter, while I'd consider the Ka-50 the closest representative to the future AH-64D in terms of systems and handling.

 

Counteracting torque with the pedals is something you'll have to deal with in all helicopters, however. It may help to set a negative curve on the yaw so you get more authority for less pedal input.

[3WA]

Ka-50 takes a while to figure out, but you just have to know how the trimmer works.

[Aluminum Donkey]

7 hours ago, Lazerhawk said:

Hello,

 

I mainly fly fixed wing aircraft like A-10C, F/A-18C and P-51D.

I also tried to learn the UH-1H Huey at some point but I found it very difficult to control the aircraft. Counteracting the torque with the pedals especially gave me a hard time.

 

I know that practice makes perfect but I was wondering if more modern helicopters, like Apache or Hind, are easier to learn when it comes to the actual flying and maneuvering?

 

Best regards!

 

 

Ok, here's the no-BS answer:

 

As a general rule, helicopters are a "handful of busy" compared to fixed-wing aircraft, no matter the type. You're dealing with a whole lot of different forces that really screw with each other whenever you make any sort of control input. One control input messes with more than just one axis of control--requiring other control inputs to deal with it. Losing altitude slowly? Raise collective, and you generate reaction torque requiring pedal input. Fly faster, and you generate translational lift, reduce collective to compensate and you change reaction torque, requiring pedal input. It's a whirlwind of messing about that takes a lot of getting used to. Cyclic roll input changes reaction torque as well--more pedalling around.

 

So, yes, helicopters are very difficult to fly compared to airplanes. It's a whole different skill set, and the only similarity is the word "pilot".

 

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[Lazerhawk]

Thank you guys, these are interesting answers so far!

[daviddou80]

In a way, helicopters are more difficult to control than fixed wing, whether it is a modern helicopter or a helicopter like Huey

[Scofflaw]

23 hours ago, Aluminum Donkey said:

As a general rule, helicopters are a "handful of busy" compared to fixed-wing aircraft, no matter the type. You're dealing with a whole lot of different forces that really screw with each other whenever you make any sort of control input. One control input messes with more than just one axis of control--requiring other control inputs to deal with it. Losing altitude slowly? Raise collective, and you generate reaction torque requiring pedal input. Fly faster, and you generate translational lift, reduce collective to compensate and you change reaction torque, requiring pedal input. It's a whirlwind of messing about that takes a lot of getting used to. Cyclic roll input changes reaction torque as well--more pedalling around.

 

 

Agreed.  I find with helicopters my hands and feet are quite busy for most of the flight, whereas I rarely touch my pedals post-takeoff in fixed wing planes, with the exception of the WW2 birds.

 

Just my $0.02, I usually feel way more satisfaction after completing a mission in a helicopter compared to a fixed wing.  You also get to appreciate the amazing detail of the DCS maps, like flying through the mountains in the Caucasus hunting for rebels.  You can also do a surprising amount of damage in a single outing with the KA-50 with the Vikhrs.

[Dangerzone]

My 2c worth: Helicopters are more difficult to 'learn to fly' - but once you learn it - at least for me - I've found that they become quite easy due to 'muscle memory'.  

 

A few things not yet mentioned however:

 

Modern helicopters? No - I don't think you could base ease of flight on generation. The Hind is harder for me to fly than the Huey for instance (more below).

 

FWIW I found VR to be an absolute game changer though when it comes to learning to fly. The situational awareness in 3D gives a significant advantage that can be underestimated. Not saying that you can't fly in 2D and many do quite successfully - but if you have an opportunity - VR definitely makes learning to fly in Helicopters much easier (bigger contrast than fixed wings). 

 

Additionally for me at least, having decent controllers as well (especially dedicated rudder pedals that are easy to control) also is a game changer. Even more so having ones I can control precisely. I started off with CH-PRO, and switched to VKB's T-Rudder. Being able to rest my feet on the ground and control more precise with my toes was a significant advantage than sliding my heels and toes in the 'foot rest' of the CH-PRO which I found more difficult with precision as I had nothing 'static' to help me keep position. Although I do believe there is a 'cheat' or 'auto-rudder' option in DCS as well to help newby's get started if needed. I think it ruins the fun and learning experience, but can appreciate that for some where learning is becoming 'too difficult' - it could be a good tool to use.

 

Conventional helicopters (main and tail rotor) will be more difficult to fly than coaxial rotor designs (Ka50) because of the torque with additional input. Up, Down, Forward, Backwards will all increase or decrease torque requiring counter-inputs. For those having difficulty I would recommend the KA50 as it's a lesser learning curve - and with most of the vision forward it may be easier as well on 2D instead of VR than other helicopters. 

 

The KA-50 more feels like a 'platform in the sky' for me than a helicopter. Very effective in combat situations - shooting Vikhr's at 8km's out with the Shval. The autopilot / flight director is a pain in the but though to try and understand - often it feels like it's trying to kill you rather than save you. I'd say the hardest thing about the KA50 isn't learning to fly it - but rather learning how not to fight the AP/FD, and understanding the systems. Get around that and the skills needed for basic flight in it are quite light compared to other helicopters.

 

I found the Gazelle to be very twitchy - but also once understood - easier to fly in the sense that it stays where you put it (you're not constantly flighting it like others). Although there is much controversy about the flight model of the Gazelle. I found it difficult to get my head around always recentering the stick after doing a manouver. For me I'm used to holding the stick  forward when going forward, and left when turning left, etc. This may be the systems in the Gazelle - I don't know. I just found it 'too different'.

 

I find the UH-1 is the single most fun helicopter to fly 'by the seat of my pants'. I can throw it around all over the place - and even treat it rougher than I should. It's more forgiving than the Mi-8 and Mi-24 in many areas. VRS still can kick in - but it's easier to stay out of, and also more forgiving if I get in it than the Mi-8 or Hind. Incredible fun for Heli-ops- but as far as combat is concerned - very difficult to engage enemy units and survive compared to other helicopters. 

 

The Hind is probably the most difficult helicopter I've found. Very unforgiving. VRS is on steroids compared to the others. So is power management. Very easy to find yourself spinning counter clockwise with full right- pedal down waiting for the engines to spool up more and give more power. It wouldn't be the helicopter I'd suggest learning to fly in unless you have a lot of patience. 

 

In summary - for the easiest to fly and good 'all rounder' - KA50.  For the easiest to learn a conventional helicopter and a good place to start - to both 'have fun' and also as a spring board for more difficult units - the UH-1 Huey. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Dangerzone

[eaglecash867]

I agree that of all of the helicopters, the Ka-50 is the "easiest" to fly...although there still isn't much that's easy about it.  On that one, since you have coaxial rotors, you don't have to worry as much about offsetting torque when you raise or lower the collective.

 

The main thing I did on my system that made helicopters easier for me was to start flying everything in VR.  Flying a helicopter in a stationary simulator is made more difficult by the lack of feel, sense of motion, and depth perception.  Do it in VR and you get a decent sense of motion, along with depth perception.  That definitely helps with flying something that can crash in any direction.

[Lazerhawk]

Thanks for the insights! I guess it's back to Huey 101 for me then

[Lazerhawk]

The feedback in this thread really motivated me to give the Huey a second chance.
And what can I say? I'm having a great time

 

My first attempt at flying helicopters failed because of my own arrogance: I thought I was playing DCS for years now, so hard could flying a helicopter be?
So I didn't even read up basic concepts like Ground Effect, Translational Lift or Vortex Ring State, boy was I wrong!

 

By now I'm really starting to get the hang of it. Take-off and flight are no longer a problem.
And most of the time I'm pretty satisfied with the landings as well (I only manage to get the chopper down safely on a runway or an empty field yet and not on a heli pad of course :))

 

So now I'm even more looking forward to the Apache. And until then it's practicing the Huey

Cheers!