TPOD designation and Trouble with JDAM targets (multiplayer)

[JIGGAwest]

Hello,

 

Since the recent update DCS 2.7.4.9847  I've been having trouble with the TPOD TGT points.

I have flown probably 20 ground target bombing missions, maybe two flights were trouble free.

 

issue:

- GBU-38 (possible issue with GBU-54 also) do not hit designated target, they fall in a zone but not accurate enough for ground units.

 

factors:

- Multiplayer use 

- no waypoints loaded for harrier on hot start

 

possible causes:

- desync ?

- not visually designating target correctly

- TOO TGT point designated while in TPOD MAP DES / SLV DES mode (not in TPOD DES mode)

- BUG ?

- during alot of the tests I previously was not designating the targets and the TPOD mode was MAP DES / SLV DES

      - this did not cause much issue in previous versions. But, now I do not use MAP DES for target points any longer.

- Assigning TGT points too far away ? 

 

attached is a track of a mission where I believe I did the JDAM process correctly using both TOO assignments 

for JDAM ripple drop and WINC (waypoint increment) for single designated drops. TGT points are assigned at less than 20nm.

 

For JDAM ripple, process was:

- A/G mode

- activate TPOD SSS down x2

- TDC DOWN / action position (special option is selected in game settings)

- verify coordinates are visible on TPOD, and TPOD MODE is TPOD DES

- use UFC TOO button, verify TGT point number, hit UFC ENT button

- Master arm ON

- set FUZE JDAM to IN

- fly to in range cue, wait for high percentage accuracy, then hold weapon drop until all selected TGT points drop off the HUD

 

For Single target:

- Master ARM ON

- set FUZE JDAM to IN

- activate TPOD SSS down x2

- TDC DOWN / action position (special option is selected in game settings)

- verify coordinates are visible on TPOD, and TPOD MODE is TPOD DES

- use WINC, look for N0 on HUD

- fly to in range cue, wait for high percentage accuracy, then hold weapon drop 

 

 

Shorter Track

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17uXvpeRcxZ129m9-6FG-u8lPcMPJuH8M/view?usp=sharing

 

Sorry it's a long track. 3 flights.

Link to track 69MB

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GPZevghNzNBJLt2-3OBwcp6Zta6dyfWd/view?usp=sharing

Edited August 1, 2021 by JIGGAwest

[Tj1376]

In your mission, try turning ["unrestrictedSATNAV"] = false, to true and make sure in your game settings it is also set to true (by default its not selected.) It is located in Options > Gameplay page.

 

In a single player mission, both the clients game settings AND the mission must have this value to true.

 

I am unable to verify which color your AV8B is and I dont have the mods you have to verify or the time to decode the coalitions in your mission file.... But ["unrestrictedSATNAV"] = false, has caught many mission builders out and causes GPS bombs to drop with just an INS alignment which means they miss by just enough.

 

TJ 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Tj1376

[JIGGAwest]

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll try to get the mission designers to update this.

 

the date is 2021

 

shorter track has been added above.

 

 

[Tj1376]

Date doesnt matter - coalition choice does.

 

If you happen to be flying RED, and unrestricted satnav is FALSE, your bombs are dropping via INS.

 

You can also update this by just opening the mission in the mission editor, going to the checkmark on the left hand side (called 'mission options') and selecting both checkboxes for unrestricted satnav (enforce and value.) Then, save the mission file. Next, go to YOUR settings, go to gameplay tab, make sure unrestricted satnav is checked.

 

Try again.

 

Also edit, your steps are spot on accurate. Without being able to see your track (because your mission file requires some sort of mod), just verify you are flying red. Try flying blue and see if you have more success.

 

TJ

Edited August 1, 2021 by Tj1376

[JIGGAwest]

On 8/1/2021 at 2:00 PM, Tj1376 said:

Date doesnt matter - coalition choice does.

 

If you happen to be flying RED, and unrestricted satnav is FALSE, your bombs are dropping via INS.

 

You can also update this by just opening the mission in the mission editor, going to the checkmark on the left hand side (called 'mission options') and selecting both checkboxes for unrestricted satnav (enforce and value.) Then, save the mission file. Next, go to YOUR settings, go to gameplay tab, make sure unrestricted satnav is checked.

 

Try again.

 

Also edit, your steps are spot on accurate. Without being able to see your track (because your mission file requires some sort of mod), just verify you are flying red. Try flying blue and see if you have more success.

 

TJ

 

 

 

I was flying RED with Unrestricted SATNAV was set to false, this was where I was seeing the issue. 

 

could this setting have been affecting the blue side as well? Because I seemed to have similar issues.

 

 

[Tj1376]

 
 
I was flying RED with Unrestricted SATNAV was set to false, this was where I was seeing the issue. 
 
could this setting have been affecting the blue side as well? Because I seemed to have similar issues.
 
 

No. Satnav settings for blue are unrestricted. Basically someone once said "Russia will only be red" and a bunch of code was written around that. So once you put a non Russian airframe on red, you've gotta unrestrict satnav so the nato airframes on red can access the GPS data.

You should have no issues following the same procedures on blue. But please confirm.

TJ

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[JIGGAwest]

The tracks are red. But I had continually tested this several times over a matter of days on blue as well. 

 

But, for sure red was an issues with satnav.

 

I may have had other issue while testing on blue.

 

Things that could have been going on:

- unrestricted satnav not enabled

- possibly did not designate the TPOD prior to using TOO mode to create target points. TOO creation would have been made while in MAP DES mode. (Creates a severe error in drops, not sure if bugged)

- the TPOD bug, where no coordinates are displayed, shows only 000000000, could have been present while selecting the targets, thus no gps point created.

 

I've since learned to work around the bugs and my mistakes. Although, I have mostly played with unrestricted satnav enabled missions. There will be a few times where the drops don't happen correctly, but I cant exactly lock down the issue, possible desync?

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by JIGGAwest

[Coole28]

I can’t access your track file at the moment, but I can think of two possible things that could help if you want to try.  I’ve had an awful lot of issues with JDAMs in the past myself.

 

1.) Make sure to use the laser range function on the TPOD when you do TOO.  It gives you a more accurate coordinate input for the JDAM to target, and have found this significantly increases likelihood of a direct hit.  I have no idea if this is realistic IRL, but it works in game.

 

2.) If your JDAMs are significantly off (usually you will see them initially fly in a very wrong trajectory, then take extreme maneuvers trying to hit a target once their GPS guidance turns on halfway through), then you likely have the chronic alignment bug plaguing a few of us pilots that affects the DCS engine itself (not specific to any module).  The fix for this is to load up any mission and hop into a harrier (or whatever plane you want to fly), wait for everything to be loaded and then quit to main menu.  The first time you load a plane any time you start DCS world, often times the Air-to-Ground GPS system completely bugs out at some point during your flight and you need to quit the mission and start again.  After a module has been loaded once, the bug goes away until you next start up DCS world again.  This might explain why some of your flights didn’t have issues, either the GPS hadn’t bugged out yet or you already unknowingly did the fix. This also fixes the A/G gun CCIP piper inaccuracy for both this plane and the F/A-18C, and various GPS weapon issues in the F-16 and JF17 if you have those issues as well.  Not everyone has this bug, but if you do it happens ~95% of the time you fly.

 

It’s worthy of note that ever since ED adjusted JDAM parameters mid/late last year, JDAMs using just GPS are no longer accurate enough to score direct hits 100% of the time against vehicle sized targets.  This is intentional as it represents the IRL accuracy of the weapon.  So if you noticed being able to wreck entire tank battalions in the past and are just getting back and wondering why you keep *just* missing targets, that might be why.  I suggest always using laser JDAMs over regular JDAMs, so that when you are against heavy armor that requires a direct hit to knock out you can use active laser guidance which is much more accurate.