Disoriented and scared in the clouds

[Doc3908]

Just wanted to share an experience from a few days ago - first one for me. I was flying the I-16 against a Bf-109 and got into a thick cloud layer at fairly low altitude. Normally, I have no problem with instrument flying, but this time I actually got completely disoriented and, frankly, kinda scared. Those who have flown the I-16 know that the artificial horizon is almost useless. It took me a few precious seconds to switch from "I'm chasing this Bf-109" mode to "I need to start scanning my instruments" mode. Once I figured out what's up and what's down, I got my confidence back and got out of there. But I had always taken my instrument skills for granted and this was the first time where I got really disoriented and unreasonable panic set in. I can only imagine how terrifying it must've been for real WWII pilots with only a handful of hours of training and for whom there was no reset on crash. 

[randomTOTEN]

I was flying multicrew in the UH-1H and the flying pilot was less experienced. We were using SRS to communicate. He didn't respond to cautions to stay below the cloud deck, and we entered the soup on an attack run. I would have been surprised at just how fast he lost control of the helicopter if I wasn't mentally prepared for it (and seen it before from various sources). The noises he made as everything suddenly became useless were entertaining for me, but no doubt a horrendous experience for him. It's sometimes difficult to have the respect for that situation, where something you see as benign is in a sense traumatic... and certainly fatal IRL.

 

It was an excellent experience for both of us I think, and an amazing experience for Multicrew. Bring on the Hip!

[Quadg]

The only time I have died on the search and rescue server was flying into IMC in the huey.

it was with the old clouds where the boundary was less obvious.

one second I was fine the next I was completely whited out. when I thought I had more room.

when I was really close to a mountain.

with no easy escape route. slowing for a hover.

 

I'm so glad for the new clouds with more granularity to their edges.

but I also totally get when real helicopter pilots say that the biggest killer of helicopter pilots is unintentionally flying into IMC.

the unexpected switch from VFR to IFR is what kills you.

even if you have skills in both.

that moment of disorientation and panic

 

 

[Lange_666]

Like this:

 

https://streamable.com/j68nrp

Edited August 3, 2021 by Lange_666

[Doc3908]

9 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

https://streamable.com/j68nrp

Exactly!! That sudden task switch from visual close-in dogfighting to IFR flying really threw me off. I've done a few dogfights at night in modern jets (DCS, of course), and it's never been a problem (probably because I'm already scanning my instruments for night flying). I've done plenty of case-3 recoveries in all kinds of weather - never an issue (other than bad form). But, as QuadG pointed out, the unexpected VFR to IFR switch can be quite disorienting. 

[rayrayblues]

On 8/2/2021 at 6:20 PM, Quadg said:

I also totally get when real helicopter pilots say that the biggest killer of helicopter pilots is unintentionally flying into IMC.

 

This is exactly what happened last year when we lost Kobe Bryant and his 13 year old daughter.

The pilot was not only IFR rated, but was also an IFR instructor. 

 

 

[Quadg]

@rayrayblues Yes, I agree,  the Kobe Bryant crash is a classic example.

He (the pilot) should have just setup his full autopilot to fly the minimums and switched it on before he entered IMC.

But he waited till he was whited out and then tried to figure something out.

AVweb has an interesting discussion between them, the NTSB and Helicopter Association about preventing it.

 

 

 

[Cmptohocah]

Steps to take in these kind of situations:

1. Don't look outside much - seeing the terain and then suddenly not seing it anymore, will leave you in a state of despair and prevent you from doing the most important thing: flying.

2. Check your altimeter. This will instantly tell you if you are climbing or descending.

 

Unintentional climb? No problem, just level the wings and monitor the airspeed. Airplane will eventually stop the climb.

 

Unintentional descent? Level your wings! Then start a slow pull back to level flight.

 

I have years of experience flying sims and I still crash sometimes due to disorientation. Don't trust your eyes. Trust your instruments!

[danperin]

On 8/3/2021 at 1:35 AM, Lange_666 said:

Like this:

 

https://streamable.com/j68nrp

 

 

Sorry, but I laugh when I saw the two fireballs 

 

[silverdevil]

i remember watching a documentary on chinooks. one of the stories was a pilot that was in iraq (i think) and ran into a dust storm. the chinook had some sort of new autopilot that had never been tested. it was designed to fly over terrain without pilot input. he either had to land and wait it out. not a great idea. or try it. he tried it and it worked great. successfully tested!

 

Quote

MH-47E is equipped with an advanced radar system, the Raytheon AN/APQ-174A, for terrain-following flight, air-to-ground ranging and ground mapping. A Raytheon AN/AAQ-16 forward-looking infrared (FLIR) is installed in the nose of the helicopter and the cockpit is fitted with a moving map display.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by silverdevil
found some info