This year Germany's first Eurofighter receives Meteor BVRAAM missile and P2EB software

[kseremak]

16 April 2021 German Luftwaffe has begun equipping Eurofighter with Meteor BVRAAM missile.

The Meteor missile requires P2Eb software upgrade (Phase 2 Enhancements B) to be used, Luftwaffe plans to make the first Eurofighters armed with Meteor to be operational in June this year. The first Eurofighter serial number 31+35 (c/n GS095) has been equipped with the P2Eb software on April 26.

 

For the first time on Eurofighter Meteor missile become operational in December 2018 in British RAF.

 

https://www.key.aero/article/germanys-first-eurofighter-receives-p2eb-software-upgrade

 

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/luftwaffe-eurofighters-get-meteor-bvraam

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by kseremak

[QuiGon]

The Bundeswehr has also published a video on that yesterday. Unfortunately it's in German only, but the automatic subtitles and translation are quite good these days:

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by QuiGon

[Kev2go]

On 8/4/2021 at 9:34 AM, QuiGon said:

The Bundeswehr has also published a video on that yesterday. Unfortunately it's in German only, but the automatic subtitles and translation are quite good these days:

 

 

 

 

 

Will germany be adopting EF's with Pirate at some point?  Or are thse examples just luftwaffe test/evaluation aircraft?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Kev2go

[Etirion]

Those are part of the Test and Evaluation Squadron as indicated by the 98+xx, they also support the Eurofighter program on an international basis and are known as Instrumented Production Aircraft (IPA). So far there are no plans that I've heard of to add them to the German fleet.

[Skysurfer]

Also, with the LPI Captor-E voming there really is no real need for an IRST. 

[Hummingbird]

2 hours ago, Skysurfer said:

Also, with the LPI Captor-E voming there really is no real need for an IRST. 

 

A no emissions detection system is never without need I'd say, esp. not vs any advanced adversary. I believe PIRATE will be on the 78-93 new Tranche 4's Germany ordered.

[QuiGon]

7 minutes ago, Hummingbird said:

I believe PIRATE will be on the 78-93 new Tranche 4's Germany ordered.

 

Source?

[Hummingbird]

2 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

Source?

 

Can't remember where I read it, but basically they were talking about making sure it had all the bells and whistles now available to the EF, which would also indicate the AMK as well some unspecified stuff relating to the FCAS.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Hummingbird

[QuiGon]

8 minutes ago, Hummingbird said:

Can't remember where I read it, but basically they were talking about making sure it had all the bells and whistles now available to the EF, which would also indicate the AMK as well some unspecified stuff relating to the FCAS.

 

I would be careful with such assumptions. I have not seen any indications that the Tranche 4 jets for the Luftwaffe will have PIRATE, so I doubt this will be the case.

[Hummingbird]

We'll see, but seeing as IRST has basically become std. equipment among the new generation aircraft, I believe these 78+ new LW EF's are going to come with PIRATE equipped. It would be a mistake if not.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Hummingbird

[QuiGon]

8 hours ago, Hummingbird said:

It would be a mistake if not.

 

Just like having Tiger attack helicopters without an autocannon, but that's a different topic for a different place...

Edited August 8, 2021 by QuiGon

[TLTeo]

If I recall correctly, Spectre11 a while ago wrote that no Typhoon with AMK has been ordered. Idk if that came before or after the new Luftwaffe order though.

 

3 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

Just like having Tiger attack helicopters without an autocannon

Ok I think this even beats getting Phantoms that can't fire Sparrows. I'm impressed.

[F-2]

58 minutes ago, TLTeo said:

If I recall correctly, Spectre11 a while ago wrote that no Typhoon with AMK has been ordered. Idk if that came before or after the new Luftwaffe order though.

 

Ok I think this even beats getting Phantoms that can't fire Sparrows. I'm impressed.

If I recall the AMK typhoons are for a order that would supersede the current tranche four order. It would be included among other upgrades as a bid to replace thr German tornados. For the life of me I can’t find the source but I remember reading it around the new year.

[TLTeo]

1 hour ago, F-2 said:

It would be included among other upgrades as a bid to replace thr German tornados

If that is true, then that order hasn't gone through yet (and it may not because ECRs and nuclear armed Tornadoes are not as easily replaced). The latest German order is not to replace the Tornado fleet, but to replace the Tranche 1 fleet iirc.

[Hummingbird]

10 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

Just like having Tiger attack helicopters without an autocannon, but that's a different topic for a different place...

 

 

Well the Geman TIger attack heli is meant primarily for taking out tanks, which it will do far better than the French versions.

 

The reason the GIAT auto cannon wasn't put on the German version was apparently because the Germans weren't happy with the recoil and resulting accuracy of the weapon, hence the recoilless Rheinmetall RMK30 was proposed. It was however in the end deemed unnecessary as the Tiger was primarily intended to take out enemy armour, and the weight saved by omitting the cannon would allow for the addition extra equipment purpose built for that role.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Hummingbird

[QuiGon]

48 minutes ago, Hummingbird said:

Well the Geman TIger attack heli is meant primarily for taking out tanks, which it will do far better than the French versions.

 

If you put it that way, then I guess the German Eurofighter is meant to primarily detect targets through radar instead of IR...

 

In all seriousness, the anti tank helicopter concept (PAH2) was the original intention for the German Tiger from the design phase in the 80s. Times have changed a lot since then, but Germany is not adjusting and same is true for the Eurofighters which are not planned to recieve PIRATE so far.

 

 

9 hours ago, TLTeo said:

If that is true, then that order hasn't gone through yet (and it may not because ECRs and nuclear armed Tornadoes are not as easily replaced). The latest German order is not to replace the Tornado fleet, but to replace the Tranche 1 fleet iirc.

 

Correct

Edited August 8, 2021 by QuiGon

[Spectre11]

Guys you are too fixated on Tranches. The German T4 A/C will be similar to the Kuwaiti Typhoons. You'll neither see AMK nor PIRATE on these A/C. The AMK is linked to the Phased Enhancement Programmes. It's not yet selected or contracted at all. P4E will likely be the earliest point of embodiment, if there is no further step beyond P3Ec. As of now 38 T4 A/C have been ordered under project Quadriga for T1 replacement. Potentially 40 A/C + 15 ECR might be oredered under the Tornado Replacement programme, but that's not fix yet at all.

[Hummingbird]

But the Kuwaiti EF's have PIRATE.

[Spectre11]

I said simimiar, not identical...

[Mainstay]

Can someone post a source where i can read what all this jibberish means? PIRATE/AMK/P4E/P3Ec et cetera et cetera

Im not informed in the Typhoon realm. 

[QuiGon]

45 minutes ago, Mainstay said:

Can someone post a source where i can read what all this jibberish means? PIRATE/AMK/P4E/P3Ec et cetera et cetera

Im not informed in the Typhoon realm. 

 

A lot of this explained in this sticky:

AMK refers to the Aerodynamic Modification Kit, which is a new upgrade that increases the Eurofighters maneuverability even more.

Edited August 9, 2021 by QuiGon

[Hummingbird]

7 hours ago, Spectre11 said:

I said simimiar, not identical...

 

I sincerely hope PIRATE will be on the 78+ aircraft delivered, not adding a passive detection system in this day and age makes very little sense. Deliveries are to be made in 2025 IIRC, so there is time for things to change a bit.

[Skysurfer]

14 minutes ago, Hummingbird said:

 

I sincerely hope PIRATE will be on the 78+ aircraft delivered, not adding a passive detection system in this day and age makes very little sense. Deliveries are to be made in 2025 IIRC, so there is time for things to change a bit.

 

I sure hope the Luftwaffe considers your hopes.  

[QuiGon]

40 minutes ago, Hummingbird said:

I sincerely hope PIRATE will be on the 78+ aircraft delivered, not adding a passive detection system in this day and age makes very little sense.

 

It has already been a dumb decision when the previous Eurofighter procurments were made, but it was made nonetheless, because it saves money. I don't see any indiciation that this has changed.

Edited August 9, 2021 by QuiGon

[Hummingbird]

22 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

It has already been a dumb decision when the previous Eurofighter procurments were made, but it was made nonetheless, because it saves money. I don't see any indiciation that this has changed.

 

 

It was dumb indeed, I just cannot fathom that mistake made twice. One would think the pilots stressed the absolute need for a passive detection system like this considering the proliferation of stealth among opposing forces. This is an area where you don't want to skip costs.

 

That said, a similar issue was present initially during Germany's order for new Leopard 2A7 MBT's, where the initial order didn't include a new 3rd gen thermal sight for the gunner. This however changed closer to the procurement date, as the tankers stressed the absolute need for this, highlighting the absurdity of sticking with a 1st gen thermal system from the 80's for the gunner (the guy who actually has to shoot the gun!) whilst the commander got a 3rd gen one. Thus in the end the gunner got the 3rd gen thermal.

 

I hope the same realization of need will occur in relation to the EF order.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Hummingbird