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Clouds or new lighting causing extreme amounts of shimmer. Can we expect a fix?


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It really feels to me that the new clouds and system since 2.7 introduce a huge amount of shimmering/aliasing that wasnt there before.  You can see this really well if your wingman is flying in front of any clouds and on hillsides where there are clouds behind. Roads as well. In short it affect everything. In VR the picture is boiling. Its honestly so bad it shouldn't be acceptable. 

I would add videos and screenshots but its so easy to see that its not possible to not be aware of it. While i love the clouds its made the game a nightmare in VR. I would really appreciate it if you could start looking at all the graphic bugs cause there are many. 


 


Edited by trigen
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The new clouds introduced many different graphics issues. Some were fixed, some have already been reported, and some others may not have been reported yet. It's important we know precisely which issue you're talking about.

 

Please attach a screenshot or a movie clip, and of course a short track.

Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever.

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I agree, the shimmer in VR is noticeably more pronounced than it appeared to be pre 2.7 Clouds. I have somewhat adjusted to it, but it would be great if it could be resolved.

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"Please attach a screenshot or a movie clip, and of course a short track"

 

IT's VR. There is no good way to show you a video or screenshot.  It is clear as day if you just try it yourself.  Does anybody at ED even fly VR?

 

This response is getting incredibly tiresome. It feels like nothing but dodging the question. What is worse is your original patch notes for the new clouds claim that the VR issues were a priority and now you guys act as if they dont exist at all or can only be seen by a couple users.

 

Answer the question please. Can you fix what you broke?

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1. I'm not an ED employee (hint: they have blue usernames, not yellow ones) so please don't be mad at them because of my somewhat ignorant post.

 

2. I'm just here to help making the game better. Unfortunately, I'm not VR equiped, so you'll have to get someone else's attention. Bye.

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I find the sense of entitlement here quite distasteful.

 

VR is not yet a mature technology and - currently - expecting 2D performance/detail from a game engine adapted for and not designed from the ground up to support VR is optimistic at the least if not downright unrealistic.

 

Furthermore, volumetric clouds are also a new technology in DCS, still under ongoing development and mating these two in the engine is always going to be a complex undertaking.

 

To sit there and make petulant demands from a position of having absolutely no bloody clue how difficult, complex or demanding the coding that integration requires is, represents the worst kind of behaviour from this community.

 

VR in DCS has compromises. GET USED TO IT.

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I don't think the OP was particularly offensive in his phrasing of the question. And the fact is the shimmering in VR is worse since 2.7 and the new clouds.  Whilst I fully appreciate the complexities of mating these technologies and supporting them on an engine that was never designed to do so, asking is neither petulant nor demanding.

 

Your response on the other hand comes across as arrogant and somewhat patronising.  I think everyone who uses VR in DCS understands the compromises, the simple statement was there is now a larger compromise to accept, and is there work in progress to address this particular facet.

 

There are plenty of other petulant, demanding and entitled threads in the VR section that would have warranted your response far more than this one.

 

 

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While some are a bit blunt my OP post isnt. There's also a fair few of graphical issues in DCS that has been there for years and they just dont acknowledge it so stop excusing it . Shadows,  Soft shadow transition, massive shadow flickering. Ultra shadows was removed from menu but no mention why. They seem to have no ill effects. Visibility issues depending on resolution. How hard is it really to implement if resolution is XX then do XX pixels for dot instead of just one pixel?  Not very id imagine and this is well documented. We had an enhance model size at one point but removed.

Im essentially blind in VR until it becomes a 3d model with my 4k HMD and its the same on my 4k monitor, Ground and air units.  Yes DCS clouds are a new thing but there seems to be a massive lighting issue in DCS and while you can get away with in 2D its extremely noticeable in VR. 

Its almost impossible to convey trough video and especially with YT compression but if you look closely on this video you will see that any text in front of the clouds will start to shimmer like crazy.  Since this also feels like a lighting issue the same goes for aliased roads, runway textures, well game wide really.  Surely something could be done about this edge reflection shimmer?  AA does help somewhat but not much. Supersampling has marginal effects. 

 



And here's one just flying in 2d with no AA on which was perfectly fine before but no longer. You get a sense from the fences and such how it generally feels in VR, just much worse with the magnification. 
 

 


Edited by trigen
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  • ED Team

Please attach screenshots of your DCS settings and VR options. 

 

Specifically your PD value 

 

Let us know which headset and if you use other vr software like steam vr your settings there also.

 

Im using a reverb G2 and to my eyes it looks ok. 

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"I find the sense of entitlement here quite distasteful.

 

VR is not yet a mature technology and - currently - expecting 2D performance/detail from a game engine adapted for and not designed from the ground up to support VR is optimistic at the least if not downright unrealistic.

 

Furthermore, volumetric clouds are also a new technology in DCS, still under ongoing development and mating these two in the engine is always going to be a complex undertaking.

 

To sit there and make petulant demands from a position of having absolutely no bloody clue how difficult, complex or demanding the coding that integration requires is, represents the worst kind of behaviour from this community.

 

VR in DCS has compromises. GET USED TO IT."

 

Pathetic in every regard.  Don't ever tell me or anybody else to get used to anything just because you are OK with it. It is not your call. I am well aware of the challenges with VR. This was not an issue before so why should I settle for it being one now?

 

Be very careful about claiming somebody has "no bloody clue" when you are entirely off-base. I am asking "IF" they can fix it. Nobody is demanding anything other than a straight answer. I am not going to drop $60 an aircraft if this is here to stay. You represent the worst of consumerism. Take your petulant sensitivity elsewhere. I just want some answers.

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Please attach screenshots of your DCS settings and VR options. 

 

Specifically your PD value 

 

Let us know which headset and if you use other vr software like steam vr your settings there also.

 

I'm using a reverb G2 and to my eyes it looks ok. 

 

Hello Bignewy.  Sorry if I had to be blunt but nothing was getting done. Sometimes you have to make a little noise. 

 

I have both the G2 and the rift S.  You are correct. It is much better in the G2 but it is still visible. In the rift S the issue is clear as day. I use the oculus tray tool and fly with no SS or ASW.  I also mostly fly low and slow with the Huey.  It gets worse around the horizon line as the issue seems to compound the closer you get to it. If anybody at ED has a headset with less res then a G2 you will more than likely see what is being talked about. I understand VR cant be the primary focus but maybe just a general "clouds" update every other week in the newsletter would help with any concerns.  I am fine if this is something that cant be fixed especially if it is a small group being affected. I would just like to know if it is possible or not. 

 

i79700K, 2070 super, 32 gb ram

 

 

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17 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Welcome to my ignore list azzhat. 
 

Your nick is all too appropriate.

 

Well, Azzhat - now you are together with all DCS bugs on DD_Fenrirs ignore list ... 🥺


Edited by Fastbreak
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1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please attach screenshots of your DCS settings and VR options. 

 

Specifically your PD value 

 

Let us know which headset and if you use other vr software like steam vr your settings there also.

 

Im using a reverb G2 and to my eyes it looks ok. 


Please provide a reference for ok. 

 

KFA 3090 gaming 

AMD 5900X 

All nvidia drivers. 

Steam VR 1.18.7
Pitool 271

FW 298

75hz 

Current in use Pimax 8k X .Also included and tested but no longer in posession. Hp reverb G2, Vive pro 2 . Settings = VR presets 2x AA (and anything in between really)  Any PD  ranging from 2200 to 5500.  Its better or worse depending on SS and AA. At the top of those ranges its mostly gone but not quite. With the current VR performance its limited what you can turn on in terms of AA.
 
Also acknowledged by me and others in 2d.

On the text i show in the video it will flicker as long as a cloud or i suppose white is in the background. On the blue sky there are no issues. 

Planes in general are most affected if you have a cloud and the sun in this orientation. The same goes for hills. 

Screen_210806_154200.png

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1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please attach screenshots of your DCS settings and VR options. 

 

Specifically your PD value 

 

Let us know which headset and if you use other vr software like steam vr your settings there also.

 

Im using a reverb G2 and to my eyes it looks ok. 

@BIGNEWY Thanks for reaching out.

 

I am using a Reverb G2 also, SteamVR (the latest beta) set to 80%. PD of 1.0 in game. No issues with performance at present but the shimmer in the HMD is very obvious, especially when the sun is high. It's not really conveyed in a screenshot of the mirror output, unfortunately. But a perfect test is to launch the Hornet, Caucasus ready on the ramp mission and look at the F18 to your right on the apron, also the grass and vehicles in the foreground of that particular view. You can also see the effect in the cockpit, it really does look like some kind of antialiasing issue with lighting etc. It's always been there (well at least since 2.5.6) but it is definitely more pronounced now. The issue with the aliasing on the clouds I'm guessing is related, but that's not really what I'm trying to get across here.

 

If there's anything else I can do to help with the reporting side, please let me know.

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  • ED Team

I will show this thread to the team and make them aware of it.

 

thanks

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9 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

I find the sense of entitlement here quite distasteful.

 

VR is not yet a mature technology and - currently - expecting 2D performance/detail from a game engine adapted for and not designed from the ground up to support VR is optimistic at the least if not downright unrealistic.

 

Furthermore, volumetric clouds are also a new technology in DCS, still under ongoing development and mating these two in the engine is always going to be a complex undertaking.

 

To sit there and make petulant demands from a position of having absolutely no bloody clue how difficult, complex or demanding the coding that integration requires is, represents the worst kind of behaviour from this community.

 

VR in DCS has compromises. GET USED TO IT.

 

I think your attitude is even more distasteful, everybody who uses VR over pancake makes his own sacrifices. Anyone who thinks 2D performance / quality is translated 1:1 to VR has clearly never used VR. Nobody questions the amount of work put in any of the elements of this sim regarding VR, but asking for improvements and trying to raise awareness for that is only to be complimented.

 

Please try to be less of a rude person next time.

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2 hours ago, Marco Schaap said:

 

…but asking for improvements and trying to raise awareness for that is only to be complimented.

 


Except people don’t do that; they swagger on in here with a chip in their shoulder making petulant demands in disrespectful tones as if they think they’re modern day reincarnation of lord bloody Beaverbrook. 
 

I reciprocate their behaviour right back at them to make a point. Some get it. Others hypocritically call me out for attacking them; ironic. 

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Except people don’t do that; they swagger on in here with a chip in their shoulder making petulant demands in disrespectful tones as if they think they’re modern day reincarnation of lord bloody Beaverbrook. 
 
I reciprocate their behaviour right back at them to make a point. Some get it. Others hypocritically call me out for attacking them; ironic. 
Thank goodness you're here to keep all the kids in check....
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/5/2021 at 4:56 PM, trigen said:

It really feels to me that the new clouds and system since 2.7 introduce a huge amount of shimmering/aliasing that wasnt there before.  You can see this really well if your wingman is flying in front of any clouds and on hillsides where there are clouds behind. Roads as well. In short it affect everything. In VR the picture is boiling. Its honestly so bad it shouldn't be acceptable. 

I would add videos and screenshots but its so easy to see that its not possible to not be aware of it. While i love the clouds its made the game a nightmare in VR. I would really appreciate it if you could start looking at all the graphic bugs cause there are many. 


 

 

Yeah its really horrifying.

 

Yes shimmering is totally extrem in VR, did try so many settings and tweaks, none does really affect to get rid of shimmering.

Shimmering sucks and is hardcore annoying. Carriers, ships, buildings, planes, everything is kind of shimmering, even with all Anti Aliasing settings (MSAA, SSAA, MFAA by Nvidia - Settings)

VR Shader Mod also doens't help to stop shimmering,

Reshade Mod also doesn't help, its related to the game and its techniques.

 

Shimmering can really be frustrating and sucks, and every "VR" Video on Youtube, does not represent the real looking VR View a virtual pilot really has, it's represents the captured mirror on a 2d monitor or the track file with ultra settings for DCS uploaded for Youtube called something with VR.

 

Its like false advertising.

Hopefully ED does seriously work on VR or is paralel trying to rework the whole simulation for DCS next gen.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...

2d died with prepar3d and xplane.
If only they could refund all the investment from customers.
I could buy 2 x 3090,s.
It was an ocean of addons.
VR is utterly amazing and is the way forward.
Even broken as hell in dcs it still outweighs 2d.
I have invested just under a £1000 on modules now and feel that I have earned every right to say what I want.
Dcs or Ed whoever you are please sort something out in VR.
I will pay!
And a campaign mode like falcon4.0.
Oh why did you restrict the A10 front strut movement.
It's now unrealistic.
If you look at the real aircraft it has massive movement when braking.
Sorry I'm talking shit now.
So basically I will still fly in dcs but unfortunately I won't be investing another penny until the product is working in VR.
Or even communication with your customers is a start




Sent from my SNE-LX1 using Tapatalk

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