Typhoon is to be received Large Area Display (LAD) Cockpit upgrade by 2024

[FoxHoundELite]

 

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/uk-launches-p3ec-enhancement-package-for-typhoon

[Lurker]

Ugh....I hope that's not what it looks like because it looks frankly....pretty terrible....

[Svend_Dellepude]

That would indeed be horrible. That's just a computer within a computer.

[Rick50]

 

That's the wave of the present, not the future.  Hornet C+  upgrades were to get these very large displays, not sure if that happened or not, as the C+ was not intended for very many airframes (31 units??). 

 

Recently went up in a 4 seat homebuilt w. a 300hp piston, and the dash looked a lot like this, because the glass panels took up most of the dash space. The info display did sorta resemble this a little bit.  The avionics suite was made by Dynon, for "Experimental Class" homebuilds... and honestly it was VERY impressive for $5000 USD !! Since then they have been trying to get a full flight certification, obviously that will cost a LOT more, due to costs for meeting certification.

 

It won't be long before young pilots will be struggling with flying around with steam gauges, at least early on. 

[Spectre11]

Doubtful that LAD and Mk2 will be on P3Ec jets. We'll see.

[uhntissbaby111]

4 hours ago, Rick50 said:

 

It won't be long before young pilots will be struggling with flying around with steam gauges, at least early on. 

It’s already happening. The school I instruct at has an all G1000 fleet. Without the GPS and magenta line they’d be lost. On a IFR flight I told the student I want to do the VOR approach raw data with no overlay, his response was “we can do that?”

[falcon_120]

Well,  normal trend started by the F35. It seems like the best option for future fighters. Although not for our DCS eurofighter of course... I want the current cockpit as is

[Grievo]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:29 AM, uhntissbaby111 said:

It’s already happening. The school I instruct at has an all G1000 fleet. Without the GPS and magenta line they’d be lost. On a IFR flight I told the student I want to do the VOR approach raw data with no overlay, his response was “we can do that?”

Yeah it’s a problem. With such a costly endeavour like getting a CPL the emphasis naturally falls on getting the tick in the box to take the next step, as opposed to learning the art in its purest form. 
 

With the quality of navaids available on tablets these days though, and with cost limitations in GA operations, I wonder if steam gauges will be around for a while yet. Why put in thousands of dollars of avionics when you can hire a pilot with an iPad and subscription to an EFB service. 

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Luckily for us we won't get any of that Typhoon stuff until 2035, if ever .

 

S!

[Alicatt]

On 8/10/2021 at 9:52 AM, falcon_120 said:

Well,  normal trend started by the F35. It seems like the best option for future fighters. Although not for our DCS eurofighter of course... I want the current cockpit as is

This what they had as a demo at KB airbase a couple of years ago when Belgium was still to decide which aircraft they were going to get to replace the F-16

 

[Mr_Burns]

When I started work the EFA2000 had CRT displays, children that is Cathode Ray Tube (Cathode-ray tube) an old technology which was not more advanced than the first production televisions I think, perhaps a few less valves!

We upgraded them to AMLCD, Active Matrix LCD.

I have been out of that business for many years no so not sure if they are still the same Smiths Industries (GE Aviation) units or something different, I do recall hearing much smaller and therefore lighter units were developed but perhaps someone else may know.

Now they are looking at touch screen tech, single wide displays, awesome!!

[F-2]

12 hours ago, Mr_Burns said:

When I started work the EFA2000 had CRT displays, children that is Cathode Ray Tube (Cathode-ray tube) an old technology which was not more advanced than the first production televisions I think, perhaps a few less valves!

We upgraded them to AMLCD, Active Matrix LCD.

I have been out of that business for many years no so not sure if they are still the same Smiths Industries (GE Aviation) units or something different, I do recall hearing much smaller and therefore lighter units were developed but perhaps someone else may know.

Now they are looking at touch screen tech, single wide displays, awesome!!

We’re crt mfd ever installed on a Eurofighter?

[Dragon1-1]

I don't think I like the "flying Ipad" trend. The loss of tactile feedback could be a problem in long run. Admittedly, they probably also have full control by HOTAS cursor, so even if touchscreen stops reacting to touch, you still have some way of interacting with it, but still, I'd worry about reliability of those things. If it's one giant display, if it quits, you've basically lost all flight instruments. I really hope the display system isn't a single point of failure for the aircraft.

[Spectre11]

You'll certainly have a duplex redundancy as per the F-35 LAD. The charm of the big displays is window capability and therefore variable format sizes commensurate with increased sensor resolutions and dependent on prevailing tactical situations.

[Mr_Burns]

On 12/14/2021 at 4:32 AM, F-2 said:

We’re crt mfd ever installed on a Eurofighter?

Good question, it would only have been on the early Development Aircraft, I dont recall them being used though. We were scrapping them when I started on EFA but DA2 had been flying for years before and the AMLCD units were still new and failing frequently.

 

[Mr_Burns]

On 12/14/2021 at 4:43 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

I don't think I like the "flying Ipad" trend. The loss of tactile feedback could be a problem in long run. Admittedly, they probably also have full control by HOTAS cursor, so even if touchscreen stops reacting to touch, you still have some way of interacting with it, but still, I'd worry about reliability of those things. If it's one giant display, if it quits, you've basically lost all flight instruments. I really hope the display system isn't a single point of failure for the aircraft.

Typhoon had what they call get-you-home instruments under a hinged door on the right hand glare shield, in case of failure of the displays or electrical equipment. The aircraft also have a reversionary mode which allows some simple data.

Aside from that I hear its all PVI controlled and Hotas.

 

On the tactile though, if you look at the Typhoons left and right side panels the tactile switches all have different shaped switch tops.

[Zahnatom]

Airbus showed a mockup of a Typhoon with an LAD at ILA22

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Zahnatom

[Mogster]

All aircraft will have LAD monitors in future. The FA-18 upgrade will implement similar displays, the F-15EX has them. The advantages are obvious. Your information of interest or SOI screen can be full screen if you desire. 
 

Does it look ugly…. IMO yes… 

[Avimimus]

What I don't understand is the getting rid of the buttons for a touch screen... I mean, tactile responses to ensure one knows that one has successfully given a command to the aircraft would be pretty essential one would think...

Lots of head down time if one can't feel the spot to find the right button and feel oneself press it.

[JOYFUL_CLOVR]

34 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

What I don't understand is the getting rid of the buttons for a touch screen... I mean, tactile responses to ensure one knows that one has successfully given a command to the aircraft would be pretty essential one would think...

Lots of head down time if one can't feel the spot to find the right button and feel oneself press it.

I bet there is a setting for vibration to give a "tactile" response, just like there is on a smartphone. 

[Mogster]

I can imagine you’d have a mini joystick type interface. They work very well in road cars and you wouldn’t have to take your hands off the HOTAS.

Although you do get touchscreens that are compatible with gloves they’re far from ideal, from personal experience in industry.

[Dragon1-1]

Well, it's not like the TDC-based interface is anything new, Boeing seems to be fond of them in particular. Apache, Hornet and Mudhen all support clicking things with the TDC, in addition to the MFD buttons. I'd still want buttons, though. It's faster when you don't need to be 100% hands-on.

[Rick50]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:53 PM, JOYFUL_CLOVR said:

I bet there is a setting for vibration to give a "tactile" response, just like there is on a smartphone. 

 

At first I thought I'd agree with you, but then I remembered:  That's a very large screen, fixed to the cockpit frame.  Not sure if they wanna vibrate the whole screen... it's not a tiny smartphone. 

Second, there might be times during a flight in a fighter that there's many unusual vibrations... that might cause confusion for the pilot about whether the "screen" registered the "button press".

Then the pilots are usually wearing flight gloves. These might dampen any vibrations, nullifying the effect.

HOWEVER... with a color screen and good GUI design choices... they could have a visual highlight indicating the button press! Like a bright outline or something, or an icon appearing right above.

Also, gloves might not only be a detriment, but maybe also the solution: much like an HMD system, it would be easy-ish for a tactile vibration to be incorporated into the flight gloves themselves!

All that said, I do agree that for at least a few things, a real physical switch or button, lever or toggle may be more desirable for critical functions.

[Zahnatom]

10 hours ago, Rick50 said:

good GUI design choices

maybe also good sound design. i could imagine there being some audio feedback unless thats too distracting ofc.

[Dragon1-1]

Generally, when aircraft make beeps, that means there's something wrong (or you're shooting a heater, but that's a special case). So I don't know how well would that work for simple input validation. Could be annoying.