Improving the map

[Northstar98]

Hi everyone,

I have a proposal for improvements to the map system used in the Hind.

The current system works fairly well but it does have a number of shortcomings:

• Some areas have no maps and are completely blank.
• It always initialises with your position at the centre.
• The maps are fairly low resolution (not talking about scale).
• The only additional marks are waypoints and connecting lines.
• The map system automatically switches maps when flying across boundaries, and automatically places the own-position mark over the correct spot when changing maps or scales.

 

Custom Images

Firstly, as I (and probably a few others) have mentioned in several threads, it would really be great if we could load custom map images into the map slot.

A way of going about this is to have a separate tab in the mission editor, where we can browse for and add a library of images to, exactly as with the briefing images. It would also be a good idea to have this image library be available via a menu option in the ground crew (perhaps tied into the mission planner system planned for DTC implementation).

Then in the pilot cockpit, the cover/door for the map slot should be a clickable object. When open, the map area underneath would also be able to be clicked too. When left clicked it would bring up the library of images and their filenames, allowing you to select an image. When selected, the image loads into the map slot and the cover closes. It's then up to the pilot to set it up properly (by updating own position and selecting the appropriate scale, if applicable).

It doesn't even need to be confined to maps of the 2 valid scales - the system has no way of knowing what has actually been placed into the map slot, whether it's a map of valid scale or a picture, a checklist or anything else that'll fit inside the slot. If you want to use the doppler system, then it's solely dependent on the pilot to place in a map of a valid scale, then to set their own position accurately and select the correct scale (and all that does is control the speed of the own-position mark for a given speed of the aircraft).

Obviously if whatever is loaded isn't a map of a valid scale, then the own-position mark won't be usable (or even be applicable); in this case, however, it can be turned off independently from the rest of the doppler system. Doppler navigation however can still be achieved by using the DISS-15 readouts and course needle, in exactly the same fashion as the Hip.

Ideally the map slot would accept any image resolution and would scale it appropriately to fill the map slot.

If no images are in the library or the ME/pilot hasn't set any, then the system should fallback to the current system whereby a map is automatically selected based on current position and automatically changes based on scale and when the player reaches the edge of the current map. Though personally, the automatic updating of the own-position mark should be something in the difficulty options; the real system requires it be manually updated whenever the map is changed (either for a different location, or using a map of a different scale). Currently however, the own-position mark is automatically placed at own position and automatically updates when changing scale or when changing map. For those that want it though, the current implementation could stay as an option in the Mi-24P's misc settings.

This is broadly similar to what was requested in this thread, but I'd extend it to custom images in general.

 

User Marks/Drawings

Another request is one shared with the F10 map and kneeboard, and that is the ability to edit images by drawing on them or placing marks on them.

How this could work is similar to how you load map images into the slot above, so you would click on the cover to open it and then click somewhere in the map area. Only this time if the user right-clicks, it brings up the image in 2D (like the kneeboard and NS430 pop-up), with a few drawing tools available (such as markers in different colours and sizes, a set of symbols, an eraser/undo etc), allowing the user to draw on the image as desired, for whatever reason (such as drawing out a route, marking/annotating points of interest, marking possible enemy positions/axis of advance, whatever).  When done the new image gets loaded into the slot, and the cover closes (perhaps there could also be an option to save the edited image, allowing you to use it later).

EDIT: user marks/drawings was previously requested here.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Northstar98
grammar

[admiki]

Great idea

+1

[Razorback]

Same map as the F10 view ?
This map was apparently used in the very first Mi-24P video shown by Matt (Hind over Latakia) so I guess this solution was studied but I don't know why it was then abandoned...

[Northstar98]

On 8/10/2021 at 9:51 AM, Razorback said:

Same map as the F10 view ?

My idea is to have custom images that you can add to a library, like the briefing images, then clicking on the case would open the cover, and then left-clicking again would open up the library of images (which would be built in the ME and via a ground crew option), selecting an image in the library would then load it into the map slot.

And the idea is to have completely custom images: maps from the F10 view, hand-drawn images, briefing images, a checklist, whatever the user desires.

Obviously if it isn't a map and isn't a valid scale you won't have an accurate own-position mark, but fortunately you can turn the moving mark off and just use the doppler system as you would in the Hip.

The real system certainly has no way of knowing whatsoever what the pilot has placed in the map slot, and it is completely reliant on the pilot to set own-position and scale.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Northstar98
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[Razorback]

14 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

My idea is to have custom images that you can add to a library, like the briefing images, then clicking on the case would open the cover, and then left-clicking again would open up the library of images (which would be built in the ME and via a ground crew option), selecting an image in the library would then load it into the map slot.

 

And the idea is to have completely custom images: maps from the F10 view, hand-drawn images, briefing images, a checklist, whatever the user desires.

+1

[bies]

+1

[Dr Zaius]

Would an option in the special menu for the map to stay accurate also be a good idea, I know its not very realistic but having the option would be good for casual pilots out there.

[Northstar98]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:16 PM, Dr Zaius said:

Would an option in the special menu for the map to stay accurate also be a good idea, I know its not very realistic but having the option would be good for casual pilots out there.

Yes, absolutely.

In this case, how I'd envisage it is two fold:

1. If you don't choose your own images, it defaults to the behaviour it has now (maps chosen automatically, with them automatically updating when you fly outside their area or if you change the scale), but it requires that the pilot update the own-position mark whenever the map is changed.
2. If you have "realistic map" (or something like that) unticked in the special options, you again have maps that update automatically, and so does the cursor (exactly like what we have now).

Edited October 15, 2021 by Northstar98
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[Lurker]

@Northstar98 some very good suggestions here. Including @BIGNEWY so he takes a look at the thread and maybe passes on some of these suggestions. 

[Baltic Pirate]

Good ideas. I like the Hind and fly it a lot so yes, these suggestions would make it even more 'user friendly'.

[Caput_58]

Just wanted to add my +1 and say, please please let me make and use custom map files.  Specify the resolution and graphic format, and let me fill a folder with image files that I can then flip through and use.  

This way I can have maps cut where it makes sense for the route, I can choose to have overlap between adjacent maps, and I can choose to mark up maps as I desire to indicate flight plan, or enemy concentrations, or whatever I choose.

For bonus points, let me update this folder dynamically, so once I'm already playing I can swap in and out files as a mission changes.

[evanf117]

+1 also i agree with Caput_58 custom maps would be real cool

[Qnnrad]

+1, as a low hanging fruit the "ALT" map from Mission Editor option could work in a map in Mi-24P (wish for that option).

[Northstar98]

2 hours ago, Qnnrad said:

+1, as a low hanging fruit the "ALT" map from Mission Editor option could work in a map in Mi-24P (wish for that option).

The idea is that we should be able to load any image we want into the map slot, including things like the ALT map (or a screenshot of it).

Obviously, if it's not a valid scale (or isn't a map at all), then the own-position mark given to you by the doppler system won't be accurate, however, this can be turned off independently and doppler navigation can be done purely by the DISS-15 readouts, exactly like the Hip.

[Qnnrad]

I like these ideas, just decided to go forward and support the threads to raise its visibility.
Also, I hope that easily achieveable (low hanging fruit) interim solution would be to allow for an ALT map (in proper scaling) instead of MAP map, to address at least some of initial points (blank spots), and hope for devs to see that and implement.

Other interim solution is allowing us to upload any image.

I hope for end product - automatic flightpath generation on ALT maps (at least as option, for clarity and visibility these are best) based on F10 user marks.

Currently its unusable in neither multiplayer and singleplayer, so any step forward is very much needed, I hope this will be on the priority list.

[Chad Vader]

this would indeed be a great idea.  Or someone create a mod to transfer f10 steering info into the hind mid flight.

[ebabil]

+1

[Sealpup]

I would give so much to be able to add my own map marks in-mission.

[Jakey-Poo]

+1

Posted this here but this thread was linked by another player, so wanted to add visibility to this request.