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Hotas for Eurofighter


Neor

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As the old saying goes, "if you have to ask..."

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Gero Finke from True Grit have said in an interview that he had spoken with Thrustmaster and tried to convince them that there is a market for such a hotas. 

Also some time ago i have asked winwing via discord if there is a chance to produce a hotas for the eurofighter. Their representative in discord (Tony) have said this. In the meantime they have mentioned about a, not  anounced product. Perhaps someone could ask them again if they will build one. 

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Edited by jaguara5
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On 8/10/2021 at 9:11 AM, jaguara5 said:

Also some time ago i have asked winwing via discord if there is a chance to produce a hotas for the eurofighter.

WinWing should better take care about a non-fake CE certification, so that their products are legal to ship into the European Union without the risk of national customs confiscates the shipment, instead of producing a EUROfighter HOTAS that is illegal to purchase, sell and operate for EUROpean customers. 

 

On 8/10/2021 at 9:30 AM, Neor said:

The problem I have with Thrustmaster is the Gimbal. I dont like the feel of the Gimbal, so I'm using at the moment a VKB Joystick. But there I have a different problem with flickering buttons...

Yet alone a Typhoon grip from TM would be enough as we could use it on Virpil and Realsimulator bases. And i'm pretty sure VKB would come up with an adaptor for it ASAP, so the VKB customers can enjoy it too.

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On 8/10/2021 at 7:49 AM, Neor said:

if its less than 2k then im intrested.

I highly doubt they are even selling to private customers. They most likely have government contracts wich do not allow to sell this stuff to ordinary people. And even if they do, it's not made in china but made in EU/germany. Therefore i wouldn't be too surprised if this HOTAS is close to 10k, as germany is not realy known for cheap products. For a HOTAS developed and manufactured in germany, i would expect a price of 2k if it is specificly made for home PC flight simming, but not if it is made for professional flight training...


Edited by VpR81
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  • 1 month later...
On 8/20/2021 at 2:53 PM, Airhunter said:

Pretty positive one of the top of the line Virpil sticks and the CM3 throttle will do just fine.

 

  Yeah, there's no need to bother with this overpriced ''professional'' crap.

 

  Do you know what the main difference between something that's ''certified professional FAA blah blah'' and ''ganer grade'' stuff? The sticker. And no, I'm not being facetious.

 

  That stuff costs thousands because it's proprietary, certified, and comes with lifetime technical support for commercial and military consumers. It is NOT ''better'' than a good gaming HOTAS. People who buy that stuff, in those rare instances it's even possible to do so, are literally pissing away money.

 

  My first forays into private flight very quickly taught me the (lack of) significance of something being ''professionally/FAA certified''. Example, the glider we use for training has ducktape over the (broken) little plastic sliding air vent window on the canopy, because they can't legally replace it with just ANY 3x4 inch piece of plastic, it has to be a 3x4 inch FAA CERTIFIED piece of plastic... which costs over $200. -edit, actually I think it's more like 2x3 now that I think about it.


Edited by Mars Exulte
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Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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On 8/20/2021 at 8:53 PM, Airhunter said:

Pretty positive one of the top of the line Virpil sticks and the CM3 throttle will do just fine.

Sure, if you don't use extensions. Looking at the EF's cockpit, there's very little travel on that stick, so flying it with my Virpil setup (I use a 20 cm extension) will be a pain in the behind for the same reason flying the F-16 with it, is.
I'd bet my FSSB R3L will do just fine, though 🙂

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On 9/21/2021 at 1:00 PM, Mars Exulte said:

 

  Yeah, there's no need to bother with this overpriced ''professional'' crap.

 

  Do you know what the main difference between something that's ''certified professional FAA blah blah'' and ''ganer grade'' stuff? The sticker. And no, I'm not being facetious.

 

  That stuff costs thousands because it's proprietary, certified, and comes with lifetime technical support for commercial and military consumers. It is NOT ''better'' than a good gaming HOTAS. People who buy that stuff, in those rare instances it's even possible to do so, are literally pissing away money.

 

  My first forays into private flight very quickly taught me the (lack of) significance of something being ''professionally/FAA certified''. Example, the glider we use for training has ducktape over the (broken) little plastic sliding air vent window on the canopy, because they can't legally replace it with just ANY 3x4 inch piece of plastic, it has to be a 3x4 inch FAA CERTIFIED piece of plastic... which costs over $200. -edit, actually I think it's more like 2x3 now that I think about it.

 

 

 

True. Buddy of mine gave some other examples... I can't remember them, but basically he mentioned that a certain item is actually a standard high-volume automotive component... but the "airworthy certrified" component is the SAME EXACT product, but sold with this other sticker, because this 3rd party went through the laborious process of getting that component tested, retested and then go through the mountains of paperwork to meet FAA certification. Same component... but one is approved, the other is not. 

 

"Experimental hombuilt" class aircraft teaches a lot about this: Dynon makes AMAZING avionics systems for general aviation, but up until about a year ago, their stuff was not approved, and thus could only be used on "experimental" aircraft. The result? For $6000 you got avionics systems that put Boeing Next Gen and most fighters to shame... but you couldn't mount it in most aircraft because they would lose their airworthyness status (at least I think that's how it works?). Recently Dynon finished the process for full flight certification, and so the fully certified versions cost... I can't recall but I think it was about $30,000usd ?  I think Dynon isn't abandoning it's original market though and still offers the "experimental" units at a nice price. I flew a plane 3 years ago with the experimental class version and it just blew me away at just how much useful data was being presented! 

 

Now.... that said, not everything in aerospace is actually the "same". There is likely a huge difference between a professional military simulator flightstick and the sticks we use at home. But is that difference in build and quality really of any use to us home pilots? Does it make sense to spend as much on a professional stick, as that new car in the driveway? Eh.... probably not. We aren't pulling G's. We don't have hundreds of pilots through the sim every year for two decades of use. We could spend that money better on a cheaper stick and other things we need and want, so it doesn't really make sense to spend giant amounts of money on pro gear, most of the time.

 

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The process of getting an airworthyness certificate for a component, doesn't just take time, it takes a LOT of money. Money invested, to get the certification, because there's lots of tests to ensure it should be good for flight. So it may be the same "part"... but essentially you are paying extra for the time money and effort someone put in, to get the tests paperwork and approval.

 

Sometimes homebuilt experimental people will use components that have never been tested. Car engines straight out of cars. Recently I saw that someone used the grip from a CH Fighterstick, for his homebuild aircraft. I've also seen some people have home-made HUD displays, run by Raspberry Pi computers, displaying things like airspeed, attitude indicator, and probably a few other items. But those... well they are taking additional risks because of all the components not tested for flight. 

 

The plane I flew in, was a homebuild experimental, sure... but it was built by a career Airforce maintainer. It was his third homebuild. He used a Vans Aircraft kit build. Every part was certified with the exception of the avionics. And the final plane was certified by an inspector. IMO it was probably safer than many fully certified factory aircraft that might not have been as well maintained! Vans also has the most number of completed aircraft, I believe something like 14,000 units flying, which is an awful lot! It had a flight stick, four seats, cruise of 210mph (about 330km /h ), and enough cross country range to exceed one's bladder! 


Edited by Rick50
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  • 2 months later...

Reiser have a number of replica Typhoon displays too, they are not aimed at the civvy market, probably not licensed to sell them to anyone who doesn’t buy the Tiffy.

Hotas controls though, as they obviously have aluminium tools, I do wonder why they can’t sell blanks?

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On 9/29/2021 at 7:41 PM, Rick50 said:

Sometimes homebuilt experimental people will use components that have never been tested. Car engines straight out of cars. Recently I saw that someone used the grip from a CH Fighterstick, for his homebuild aircraft. I've also seen some people have home-made HUD displays, run by Raspberry Pi computers, displaying things like airspeed, attitude indicator, and probably a few other items. But those... well they are taking additional risks because of all the components not tested for flight. 

Well, given what I know about CH Fighterstick, it was probably the most robust thing onboard. In case of a crash, you could probably dust it off and mount it either back on a gaming base or in another aircraft. 🙂 CH stuff is tough.

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  • 1 year later...
On 8/12/2021 at 2:05 AM, VpR81 said:

WinWing should better take care about a non-fake CE certification, so that their products are legal to ship into the European Union without the risk of national customs confiscates the shipment, instead of producing a EUROfighter HOTAS that is illegal to purchase, sell and operate for EUROpean customers. 

 

Yet alone a Typhoon grip from TM would be enough as we could use it on Virpil and Realsimulator bases. And i'm pretty sure VKB would come up with an adaptor for it ASAP, so the VKB customers can enjoy it too.

The “fake” CE clarification is in fact a China Export label. Yes they look very much alike, which is misleading, but it’s not a fake CE verification label. 

On 8/12/2021 at 2:18 AM, VpR81 said:

I highly doubt they are even selling to private customers. They most likely have government contracts wich do not allow to sell this stuff to ordinary people. And even if they do, it's not made in china but made in EU/germany. Therefore i wouldn't be too surprised if this HOTAS is close to 10k, as germany is not realy known for cheap products. For a HOTAS developed and manufactured in germany, i would expect a price of 2k if it is specificly made for home PC flight simming, but not if it is made for professional flight training...

 

Correct. The equipment is ITAR classified, which means it’s sale is controlled by export laws that intent to mitigate the use of technology that can be used for military applications by terrorist organisations or hostile nations. 
in addition, since we are talking about genuine support equipment (versus commercial hobbyist equipment), the prices and associated quality will be significantly higher, making hobbyists of no interest to them. This is a shame really, because of the sale does not violate itar restrictions, they lose out on a market. My guess is that such companies don’t want to deal with the level of customer support demands that consumers typically want/expect.
 

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Sorry for off topic, but...

6 hours ago, BaronVonVaderham said:

The “fake” CE clarification is in fact a China Export label. Yes they look very much alike, which is misleading, but it’s not a fake CE verification label. 

You serious or kidding? I'm not sure. China Export label is only a Chinese way of saying "F.U. EU", it's a satire on EU regulations, and not a "legal entity". The idea was to put a distorted "CE", so people would think it is legit CE, and if your product is later proven non-conforming, you say: "What CE? This? Man, it's not CE, it's our own China Export badge. Incidentally it's somewhat similar to CE, but hey - we've got our own Chineese regulations that require this label in order for the product to leave China". Or whatever equally funny. You really think the striking resemblance of China Export to CE is incidental?

Regardless of how much EU laws deserve satire (lots of them are a gloomy joke), a product w/o CE is illicit for sale in the EU (a product of those which do need CE label, a banana doesn't) and CE is not certification/verification, it's manufacturer's own declaration of conformity. It works "backwards" - first you must assess if your gear meets CE criteria for a specific product group/category and if it does, you label it "CE". Then, if anything bad happens, or even doesn't happen, but someone wants to annoy you, they may test your gear and point out that it doesn't meet "CE", despite the label. I've never worked for a joystick manufacturer (or any general puprose electronics), so I don't know specific requirements for such stuff, but I recon it's next to impossible to prove non-conformity in case of a joystick, and a joystick is unlikely to kill or harm its user. Anyway, if such scenario does take place, then, at least theoretically, you may be held responsible for that. And that's another joke if we're talking Chinese manfuacturers. So, "China Export" is not a real thing, let's say it's just a playful attempt to deny responsibility - just in case.

You may also tackle the subject from a different angle. If we assume "narrow CE" is for China Export (a joke, but let's assume it), then the product doesn't have the required "EU-valid CE" (wide CE) on it, so it can't be sold in the EU (regardless of whether CE is smart of dumb). I may not be up to date with electronic gear, but I've never seen Chinese stuff in Europe which would have a PAIR of "CE" markings - one narrow, one wide, so... 🙂

 

 


Edited by scoobie
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