Will have Beast Mode?

[nthere]

it has 14 metoer! ef2000 could really carry so many missle?

 

[Etirion]

As far as I'm aware that double rack is not used on any real jet as of right now. The big A/A loadout we can expect would be 6 Meteor, 2 Iris-T.

[QuiGon]

15 hours ago, Etirion said:

As far as I'm aware that double rack is not used on any real jet as of right now. The big A/A loadout we can expect would be 6 Meteor, 2 Iris-T.

 

So which of those hardpoints (red) can be used for A/A missiles? Can the fuel tank hardpoints (red/yellow) be used for A/A missiles?

[Spectre11]

In theory it should be possible to fit dual-rail launchers on all wing stations, except for the ITSU. In practise you have only the ITSU, outboard wing pylons and the FSUs for a total of 8 AAMs.

[QuiGon]

1 hour ago, Spectre11 said:

In theory it should be possible to fit dual-rail launchers on all wing stations, except for the ITSU. In practise you have only the ITSU, outboard wing pylons and the FSUs for a total of 8 AAMs.

 

ITSU? FSU?

[Bananabrai]

FSUs -> I assume 'fuselage stations' (we used to call them as FUS or FUSE)
ITSU, I know it as ITSPL, Integrated tip station pylon launcher.

 

Is the MFRL (multi function rail launcher) not able to mount on I/B and CTR wing?

[Mirage-4000]

This is an old photo for the Spain Eurofighter...

 

[Spectre11]

4 hours ago, Bananabrai said:

FSUs -> I assume 'fuselage stations' (we used to call them as FUS or FUSE)
ITSU, I know it as ITSPL, Integrated tip station pylon launcher.

 

Is the MFRL (multi function rail launcher) not able to mount on I/B and CTR wing?

 

The "U" is the station unit itself (part of the Armament Control System), you can call it interface between the A/C and the stores carrier. The pylons, racks are part of the Armament Carriage and Installation System, which are the pylons racks etc. The ITSU carries the ITSPL, the FSUs the MEL or DMMEL (Dual-Mode Missile Eject Launcher). Then you have the 6 wing pylon station units and the centre line station. At the moment only ADHERU (heavy weapon rack) are used for A/S weapons carriage or LDP carriage on the centre and inboard wing pylons as well as the centreline. The ALDERU light weapon rack is currently used on the outboard wing stations only, but I think they should fit on the centre and inboard pylons as well. The MFRL or Twin Missile Carrier is directly fitted to the ALDERU. The TMC is not cleared though, neither is the Twin Stores Carrier (TSC) for A/S weapons. There have been some 20 years old images or so showing DA7 with a BL-755 dummy load on TSCs fitted to the inboard stations. 

[1stBEAST]

i´am all for beast mode

 

on a serious note. will take what we get, but this loadout seems excessive ^^

[TLTeo]

28 minutes ago, 1stBEAST said:

seems excessive

Naaah, the goal of every fighter pilot is to single-handedly shoot down the entirety of the opponent's air force in one sortie, by engaging 69 targets at a time with TWS shots.  Everything else is a waste of time.

Edited August 12, 2021 by TLTeo

[CrazyGman]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:27 AM, TLTeo said:

Naaah, the goal of every fighter pilot is to single-handedly shoot down the entirety of the opponent's air force in one sortie, by engaging 69 targets at a time with TWS shots.  Everything else is a waste of time.

 

Plus you know carry a tenth of your countries total amount of FOX 3s to be lost if anything goes wrong with your sortie.

[Riojano]

On 8/18/2021 at 4:35 AM, CrazyGman said:

Plus you know carry a tenth of your countries total amount of FOX 3s to be lost if anything goes wrong with your sortie.

A "good"  beast mode loadout will be 4 BVRAAM's (fuselage) 8 AMRAAM's (dual rack underwing pylons closer to center) and 6 SRAAM's (1 each "tip" and 2 in the next wing pylon in a dual rack). Other one can be 8 BVRAAM's, 8 AMRAAM's and 2 SRAAM's.

[Etirion]

The AMRAAM is a BVRAAM, the latter is not a specific type of missile it just stands for beyond visual range air to air missile vs SRAAM, short range air to air missile, which on the typhoon would be ASRAAM or IRIS-T. You probably mean meteor? But why would you go with 2 different type of BVRAAM?

 

Also not entirely sure how the pictures are supposed to relate, the upper one has a triple rack of brimstones (a/g missiles) and 2 paveway IV

Edited August 30, 2021 by Etirion

[falcon_120]

The AMRAAM is a BVRAAM, the latter is not a specific type of missile it just stands for beyond visual range air to air missile vs SRAAM, short range air to air missile, which on the typhoon would be ASRAAM or IRIS-T. You probably mean meteor? But why would you go with 2 different type of BVRAAM?
 
Also not entirely sure how the pictures are supposed to relate, the upper one has a triple rack of brimstones, a/g missiles and 2 paveway IV

Actually the use of meteor and amraam in a same aircraft does make sense from a tactical/logistic PoV, using the more expensive meteor for long range shots when the Roe allows it at maximum distance or if the target is extending/cold, while the more common and available Amraam is a perfect fit in closer (although not so close either) engagements.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Etirion]

56 minutes ago, falcon_120 said:

Actually the use of meteor and amraam in a same aircraft does make sense from a tactical/logistic PoV, using the more expensive meteor for long range shots when the Roe allows it at maximum distance or if the target is extending/cold, while the more common and available Amraam is a perfect fit in closer (although not so close either) engagements.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk
 

 

You're right that would work.

[TLTeo]

So in which situation would you be willing to take a BVR shot against someone (with all the ROE/ID complications it carries)), but decide to take that BVR shot with an inferior missile that puts the firing aircraft in a more dangerous position? The only way that actually happens is if the -C AMRAAM hasn't been fully replaced by the Meteor yet - similarly to the Sparrow/AMRAAM loadouts during Allied Force. Beyond that, tactically it makes about as much sense as expecting to make good use of a 18 air to air missiles in a single sortie.

[falcon_120]

So in which situation would you be willing to take a BVR shot against someone (with all the ROE/ID complications it carries)), but decide to take that BVR shot with an inferior missile that puts the firing aircraft in a more dangerous position? The only way that actually happens is if the -C AMRAAM hasn't been fully replaced by the Meteor yet - similarly to the Sparrow/AMRAAM loadouts during Allied Force. Beyond that, tactically it makes about as much sense as expecting to make good use of a 18 air to air missiles in a single sortie.

I can think of plenty of situatios, for example when the US/NATO force engages non really peer to peer threat aircrafts in low intensity conflicts, eg: a su22 fitter in Syria, a su25 in whichever next conflict is coming...

Also in a real world like we are in, you just don't throw Amraam inventories to the dump, you just try to load them until possible if you deem the possible threat is "low/medium risk", which is perfectly fine


Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[kseremak]

Remember with such configuration you can throw supercruise out of the window. Drag index of non semi recessed pylons is big.

[Riojano]

17 hours ago, Etirion said:

The AMRAAM is a BVRAAM, the latter is not a specific type of missile it just stands for beyond visual range air to air missile vs SRAAM, short range air to air missile, which on the typhoon would be ASRAAM or IRIS-T. You probably mean meteor? But why would you go with 2 different type of BVRAAM?

 

Also not entirely sure how the pictures are supposed to relate, the upper one has a triple rack of brimstones (a/g missiles) and 2 paveway IV

 

just liked the pictures, no related XD

[Bananabrai]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:55 PM, Riojano said:

A "good"  beast mode loadout will be 4 BVRAAM's (fuselage) 8 AMRAAM's (dual rack underwing pylons closer to center) and 6 SRAAM's (1 each "tip" and 2 in the next wing pylon in a dual rack). Other one can be 8 BVRAAM's, 8 AMRAAM's and 2 SRAAM's.

 

 

 

 

Still wondering how you are going to fit all that to the bird^^
What will the clearance between the twin MRAAM on center wing and the twin SRAAM on the O/B wing look like...

It will already be pretty performant with 4 LRAAM on FUS plus 4 MRAAM and 2 SRAAM on the wings, or frankly any other combination.

[WarbossPetross]

Beast mode is gun only. Over 9000 long range missiles is not beast mode, it's... cancer mode, to put it in a politically correct way.

[hi41000]

18 hours ago, falcon_120 said:

I can think of plenty of situatios, for example when the US/NATO force engages non really peer to peer threat aircrafts in low intensity conflicts, eg: a su22 fitter in Syria, a su25 in whichever next conflict is coming...

Also in a real world like we are in, you just don't throw Amraam inventories to the dump, you just try to load them until possible if you deem the possible threat is "low/medium risk", which is perfectly fine

If its a low intensity conflict you wouldn't need or want to be in "Beast mode" to begin with.

[Rick50]

 

I think one of the little secrets is that inventories don't have all that many advanced air weapons in the first place. Recently someone looked up the somewhat current pricing for an Amraam and was hovering around a million dollars. It's kind of like shooting a tiny fighter plane that's expendable, to kill an enemy plane. "Well DUH!" yea ok I guess that's obvious! But the pricing means that airforces may not have a giant inventory of spamraams to give you on your 6th sortie... sure, attrition from your own airforce losses means you will end up with missiles intended for your wingman who got shot down last time... but still, if you run out there with 8 BVR's and get cut down by a Strella or Archer, you didn't just lose the airframe, you also lost 8 very costly and not easily replaced missiles that other pilots could have used.  I could see how doing "beast mode" BVR-truck could make a lot of sense and tactical advantage for certain special situations, but it's probably not a good idea for "most" situations.

 

 

[F-2]

It’s probably meant to be an Arsenal plane. With targeting done by a stealth plane.

[Rick50]

 

I vaguely seem to recall that someone wanted to use a satellite datalink for BVR AAM mid-course corrections and maybe even full targeting. Anyone hear of such a thing or is this maybe just a figment of imagination? 

 

I'm not 100% on whether this would even be plausible, given that satellite coms inside a tiny airframe for an AAM could be problematic... not the electronics, but for antenna size. 

 

Recently I've heard of a couple of projects for very long range BVR missiles, ranges something like 150-250km or something?

 

Is that kind of range even practical for use in the real world, given that most of the time a vis ID is needed?