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Mi24P Hind - Solo Demo, Budapest


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Just came across this wonderful demonstration flight. Would be great if someone could learn and reproduce it in DCS World? 

 

 

Regards

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  • 1 month later...

I can fly the Mi-8 almost as well as that. 

IMO the DCS Hind flies like absolute trash, and ED should be ashamed of themselves for not fixing the controls and the trimmer button for so long after release. 

Love Huey and Mi-8.
I'm competent with the Hind... But I absolutely hate flying the Hind. Wish I could refund it.


Edited by Orwell
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8 hours ago, Orwell said:

I can fly the Mi-8 almost as well as that. 

IMO the DCS Hind flies like absolute trash, and ED should be ashamed of themselves for not fixing the controls and the trimmer button for so long after release. 

Love Huey and Mi-8.
I'm competent with the Hind... But I absolutely hate flying the Hind. Wish I could refund it.

 

What is the problem with controls? I know about the trim, but controls?

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The real thing appears to have a lot more authority and stability in yaw than the DCS version, which is what annoys me the most. 

I've also noticed, looking at the control indicator in the upper left corner, that often you're not allowed full yaw pedal deflection to one side, with it often showing just 60-70% deflection despite you commanding full deflection with your physical rudder pedals.... it's quite odd.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Hummingbird said:

The real thing appears to have a lot more authority and stability in yaw than the DCS version, which is what annoys me the most. 

I've also noticed, looking at the control indicator in the upper left corner, that often you're not allowed full yaw pedal deflection to one side, with it often showing just 60-70% deflection despite you commanding full deflection with your physical rudder pedals.... it's quite odd.

 

 

My guess would be you are not turning off the pedal damper?

All maneuvers shown in the video are possible in the DCS hind, performing them as smooth as the demo pilot is another story.

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4 hours ago, Hummingbird said:

The real thing appears to have a lot more authority and stability in yaw than the DCS version, which is what annoys me the most. 

I've also noticed, looking at the control indicator in the upper left corner, that often you're not allowed full yaw pedal deflection to one side, with it often showing just 60-70% deflection despite you commanding full deflection with your physical rudder pedals.... it's quite odd.

 

 

You might want to read on SPUU 52 system

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4 hours ago, Hummingbird said:

you're not allowed full yaw pedal deflection to one side, with it often showing just 60-70% deflection despite you commanding full deflection with your physical rudder pedals

 

 

Are you using the rudder trimmer option and/or yaw stab? If yes this can easily happen since your physical and virtual pedals with be out of sync. E.g. you put in 25% right pedal and press the trimmer. Your physical pedals will return to center while the virtual pedals will be 25% right. Now if you move your physical pedals full left, you will only get 75% left in the sim, the missing 25% have been "trimmed away" previously and your hardware cant compensate for that.

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2 minutes ago, Hummingbird said:

No I don't have the rudder trim option enabled. 

It even happens with all the AP systems off. 

 

Turn SPUU 52 on and off. Watch control indicator, yaw axis. You will see small mark on right side of the axis when system is on and nothing when system is off. Then you will have your full deflection. And before you start how it sucks, that's IRL system

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Another thing about yaw control is actually collective control.

How quickly you move the collective directly affects how quickly you need to put in yaw inputs. And by how much.

If you are having trouble maintaining yaw (anti torque) then move the collective slower (torque) and less often.

You have to match collective speed to the maximum speed allowed by the anti torque damper. (and you are better off doing it slower than this)

Get behind the curve and you can never catch up.

Why people spin to the left when lifting off.  While hammering full right pedal. or the same when coming to a quick stop.

They have pulled the collective to quickly and the anti torque damper will not allow them full right pedal fast enough to match. They may also be instigating some engine droop by over pitching and therefore also lose some anti torque power.

Don't blame your feet. Blame your left hand for this.

A slower pull on the collective requires slower pedal input and less of it. and it allows the engines time to respond with power accordingly. Then you will be fine and flying correctly. Proper collective control means you should never need full pedal in normal flight.

The hind is the embodiment of the saying "less haste, more speed..." use both the collective and pedals with less haste and you will be going at speed.

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast... to quote Casmo.

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On 10/19/2021 at 5:19 AM, Orwell said:

I can fly the Mi-8 almost as well as that. 

IMO the DCS Hind flies like absolute trash, and ED should be ashamed of themselves for not fixing the controls and the trimmer button for so long after release. 

Love Huey and Mi-8.
I'm competent with the Hind... But I absolutely hate flying the Hind. Wish I could refund it.

 

I feel you.........at least partially.

I like the Hind as an attack helicopter but flying the Mi-8 feels much more gratifying.

I can perform very precise (aerobatic) maneuvers in the Mi-8 and the Huey that feel impossible in the Hind.

I believe the fact that the trim is not working properly is my biggest problem here.

Whenever I want to maintain a certain attitude I push the trim button.

- The Mi-8 maintains that attitude perfectly (with roll/pitch channel activated)

- The Hind still goes slightly nose down or slightly right bank (with both roll and pitch channels activated)

 

Do you notice any improvement in handling/ trim since yesterdays update?

 

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13 hours ago, admiki said:

Turn SPUU 52 on and off. Watch control indicator, yaw axis. You will see small mark on right side of the axis when system is on and nothing when system is off. Then you will have your full deflection. And before you start how it sucks, that's IRL system

I'll try it out.

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1 hour ago, PHMAC said:

- The Mi-8 maintains that attitude perfectly (with roll/pitch channel activated)

- The Hind still goes slightly nose down or slightly right bank (with both roll and pitch channels activated)

Thats because there is a fundamental difference in how the AP behaves in this two helicopters. In the Mi-8, the AP servos are unaffected by trim while in the Mi-24 they are reset to zero whenever the trim button is pushed. So imagine you are hovering and just found the sweet spot for the cyclic. Before you trim, your total input is your stick position+whatever the AP puts in (which can be up to 20% IIRC). When you press the trim button, the AP input is "taken away" and your total input is not what it was before trimming, even without moving the stick. Thats why it is important to trim a lot and thus minimize AP input, especially when transitioning from/to hover.

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6 minutes ago, sLYFa said:

Thats because there is a fundamental difference in how the AP behaves in this two helicopters. In the Mi-8, the AP servos are unaffected by trim while in the Mi-24 they are reset to zero whenever the trim button is pushed. So imagine you are hovering and just found the sweet spot for the cyclic. Before you trim, your total input is your stick position+whatever the AP puts in (which can be up to 20% IIRC). When you press the trim button, the AP input is "taken away" and your total input is not what it was before trimming, even without moving the stick. Thats why it is important to trim a lot and thus minimize AP input, especially when transitioning from/to hover.

Thanks for your response..

Is this a difference between the two helicopters in real life as well or just in sim?

So if I leave the AP channels off the trim would keep attitude without changing attitude? I will need to try this out.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, sLYFa said:

Thats because there is a fundamental difference in how the AP behaves in this two helicopters. In the Mi-8, the AP servos are unaffected by trim while in the Mi-24 they are reset to zero whenever the trim button is pushed. So imagine you are hovering and just found the sweet spot for the cyclic. Before you trim, your total input is your stick position+whatever the AP puts in (which can be up to 20% IIRC). When you press the trim button, the AP input is "taken away" and your total input is not what it was before trimming, even without moving the stick. Thats why it is important to trim a lot and thus minimize AP input, especially when transitioning from/to hover.

 

This sounds very counterintuitive. Why would a perfectly good system, that works perfectly fine in the Mi-8 be so completely overhauled and changed for the Mi-24? Is it like that in the real helicopters? I still feel that the Mi24p that we have in the sim today, is significantly harder to fly than the real thing.


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The AP implementation in DCS is true to real life for both helicopters. I'm not sure why Mil decided to implement it that way for the Hind but I suppose its because in the Hind, there is no flight engineer which can adjust the AP servos for you if they hit their authority limits, unline in the Mi-8.

If you turn AP off entirely then yes, the over/undertrimming effect should go away. But you loose AP stabilization which IMO is worse than having to re-trim a lot.

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2 hours ago, sLYFa said:

If you turn AP off entirely then yes, the over/undertrimming effect should go away. But you loose AP stabilization which IMO is worse than having to re-trim a lot.

I just tried this and it works exactly as you said. Unfortunately flying without at least roll and pitch AP channels activated is even more unstable.

I guess I need to train my muscle memory more in order to control the Hind like the Mi-8

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On 10/21/2021 at 2:43 PM, PHMAC said:

I just tried this and it works exactly as you said. Unfortunately flying without at least roll and pitch AP channels activated is even more unstable.

I guess I need to train my muscle memory more in order to control the Hind like the Mi-8

Try to hold the trim button, then move the cyclic to a desired spot and release it, instead of tapping it where you need it. It seems to disconnect the autopilots when you hold the button, and it doesn't give you this jolt when you let go of it.

Also, the hat switch trimmer is super useful.

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9 minutes ago, Morrov said:

Try to hold the trim button, then move the cyclic to a desired spot and release it, instead of tapping it where you need it. It seems to disconnect the autopilots when you hold the button, and it doesn't give you this jolt when you let go of it.

Also, the hat switch trimmer is super useful.

I always fly like this in whatever DCS helicopter it is. The Shark tought me this the hard way. 😊 

I also have FFB, and I don't get that trimming jolt you mention at all. 

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3 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

I always fly like this in whatever DCS helicopter it is. The Shark tought me this the hard way. 😊 

I also have FFB, and I don't get that trimming jolt you mention at all. 

I don't have FFB, but when I try to trim by just tapping the button, I can see the stick jump a bit. Doesn't seem to happen when holding the button through the entire movement, which is very useful.

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Hi Morrov,

I had that issue as well where the cyclic in game would move a little bit every time I tapped the trim button.

Turns out my Thrustmaster Warthog was not calibrated correctly. After going through a recalibrate using the Thrustmaster TARGET software it went away. 
I believe I read about this bug in another thread…I will see if I can find it.

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