investigating Mi-24 Gunner NVG

[StevanJ]

7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

Which version of DCS are you using, petrovich symbology and NVG looks fine in the latest version

Latest, With a Quest Headset (VR)

Track of this clip

NVG.trk


Many thanks.

[BIGNEWY]

Reverb G2 using your track replay

Are you using any shader mods or edits?

[StevanJ]

Just now, BIGNEWY said:

Reverb G2 using your track replay

Are you using any shader mods or edits?

Standard game, no mods at all

[Harlikwin]

16 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

Which version of DCS are you using, petrovich symbology and NVG looks fine in the latest version

I mean aside from the fundamental fact your "NVG" model is broken in this and most other contexts. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Harlikwin

[BIGNEWY]

3 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

I mean aside from the fundamental fact your "NVG" model is broken in this and most other contexts. 

 

you will need to more specific with your comment, dont just say something is wrong and leave, at least explain what you think is wrong. 

[admiki]

33 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

you will need to more specific with your comment, dont just say something is wrong and leave, at least explain what you think is wrong. 

He means that IRL Mi-24P version we have does not have NVG, so DCS shouldn't have one too. He is big on realism, but not so big not to fly anymore if he gets killed.

[BIGNEWY]

thanks for the context. 

The NVG's are correct for our Mi-24P, however the cockpit was not NVG friendly ( like ours now ), that was an upgrade as far as I am aware or in later versions. 

[Harlikwin]

8 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

thanks for the context. 

The NVG's are correct for our Mi-24P, however the cockpit was not NVG friendly ( like ours now ), that was an upgrade as far as I am aware or in later versions. 

I very much doubt anyone is flying a helo with NVG's in non NVG compatible cockpit, unless they are suicidal. 

Militaries and civilian organizations worldwide don't spend big bucks to make pits NVG compatible for no reason. If night flying with NVG's was a simple as strapping one on and pretending it was daytime aviation would be a far happier, cheaper, and safer place. But its not. 

As it stands your pit is using red lighting which is not compatible with NVG's, in fact its among the worst lighting to use for that purpose. Especially if your Mi-24 is an 80's version it absolutely shouldn't have NVG's as the Soviets didn't really have anything appropriate for the purpose since they were largely using gen0 NVG's for their head mounted NVG's. 

Here is a high level overview for you on lighting.

https://www.consolite.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Basics-of-NVG-Lighting.pdf

Honestly I'm not even sure what you are trying to say in your correct/not correct statement above. If there is a NVG compatible pit its gonna look totally different than the pit that is currently in the game. I.e. it will have "blueish/green" lighting like your F18/F16 pits for example. 

 

Also, whats up with the white output phosphor you guys seem to have in some of your NVG models. That is a very recent and very modern addition to NVG world and again is certainly not relevant to 90's or early 2000's systems. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Harlikwin

[Northstar98]

8 hours ago, admiki said:

He means that IRL Mi-24P version we have does not have NVG, so DCS shouldn't have one too. He is big on realism, but not so big not to fly anymore if he gets killed.

"You can only care about realism if you stop flying after you get killed".

Are you serious?

Edited January 11, 2022 by Northstar98

[StevanJ]

Here is a Russian Documentary that has been translated into English.
Briefly, Its a 2 part Documentary that goes into great detail about the way in which the Mi24 was operated in the 80's during the Afghan war.

Lets hope this puts the argument to rest once and for all..
Here is where it tells us how the Mi24 was equipped for the War..

 

[BIGNEWY]

Off topic posts removed, please stick to the bug report now, you have given you feedback. 

Like it or not the Mi-24P has NVG's, this is not going to change. 

 

thanks

[Chad Vader]

Just to add to this, Petrovich wont fire in the dark or acquire targets at all.  Is this normal behavior?

[AeriaGloria]

10 hours ago, Chad Vader said:

Just to add to this, Petrovich wont fire in the dark or acquire targets at all.  Is this normal behavior?

Yes, plenty of threads on using illumination rockets to help Petro see. I referenced you to my weapons guide earlier, it contains details on how to use the rockets, angles to shoot them, and best tactics to use ATGM with them, and their limitations 

If JTAC is present and can see targets, they can also send illumination. You can also have AI like Mi-8 use illumination bombs that last 3-4 minutes 

Its just a periscope, not a thermal or low light TV, Petro is just as blind in the night as you would be looking through a pair of binoculars 

Edited May 8, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[Dreadnought]

I want to kick this concern alive again. In 2.8... the problem persists for me. While NVGs are on, Petrovich's UI acts as a light source, causing it to be bloomed and illegible. Similar to the posted images. It did work once, iirc, but I so far, I have not been able to replicate. I can do more testing when time permits, but I was at least wondering if this concern was still on the table for investigation?

I use a Rift S and no shader/filter mods.

[Dreadnought]

Update with some screenshots I got from last flight (today). The first image is with the lowest NVG sensitivity
null

Edited January 14, 2023 by Dreadnought

[admiki]

12 hours ago, Dreadnought said:

Update with some screenshots I got from last flight (today). The first image is with the lowest NVG sensitivity
null

 

I use Rift S too.

Tried with both Tacca's mod and vanilla game, they look the same. Default NVG level, didn't mess with cockpit lights

[admiki]

2 hours ago, Malakhit said:

Seeing the exact same thing on my end. The target list is also affected by this, making it impossible to use petrovich at night unless you keep taking the goggles off.

If you don't have any mods, try slow repair.

[NineLine]

Please give me a track showing exactly the issue are seeing. Why a track? Sometimes we can see an issue through a track that might not be seen when running a mission ourselves. 

[NineLine]

8 hours ago, Malakhit said:

Track file attached. I can't reproduce the bug in 2D, but it definitely shows up for me in VR. Will try a slow repair, though I did one recently so I'd be surprised if that's the cause.

HindNVGBug.trk 146.11 kB · 0 downloads

Interesting, what headset, thanks!

I will try in both 2D and VR.

[MoleUK]

On 2/10/2023 at 7:19 PM, Malakhit said:

Seeing the exact same thing on my end. The target list is also affected by this, making it impossible to use petrovich at night unless you keep taking the goggles off.

Ah. This is the way the petro sight has always worked for me in the hind with NVG. Didn't realise it was a bug. On a Quest 2, with and without mods.

Makes trying to use him at night almost impossible with the NVG.

Edited March 6, 2023 by MoleUK

[Harlikwin]

7 hours ago, MoleUK said:

Ah. This is the way the petro sight has always worked for me in the hind with NVG. Didn't realise it was a bug. On a Quest 2, with and without mods.

Makes trying to use him at night almost impossible with the NVG.

 

Yeah its not a bug, you couldn't use that sight at night since it was not NVG capable. The Hind shouldn't even have NVG's, and if you tried using them IRL the NVG would be fubared from all the unfiltered red light in the pit.

[AeriaGloria]

13 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Yeah its not a bug, you couldn't use that sight at night since it was not NVG capable. The Hind shouldn't even have NVG's, and if you tried using them IRL the NVG would be fubared from all the unfiltered red light in the pit.

I love you Harli but maybe give it a break. ED has made it clear the intended functionality in DCS is to have it the way it is but with not screwed up Petrovich text. Wether the pit is compatible in real life or not 

[MoleUK]

31 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Yeah its not a bug, you couldn't use that sight at night since it was not NVG capable. The Hind shouldn't even have NVG's, and if you tried using them IRL the NVG would be fubared from all the unfiltered red light in the pit.

I'm talking about the Petro sight. Not the gun sight, the actual AI Petro sight overlay.

The petro sight and the target unit list be brings up isn't intended to be affected by the NVG looks like, always has been for me tho.

Edited March 6, 2023 by MoleUK

[admiki]

26 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

I love you Harli but maybe give it a break. ED has made it clear the intended functionality in DCS is to have it the way it is but with not screwed up Petrovich text. Wether the pit is compatible in real life or not 

I love how people get wound up when THEIR realism limit is not met.

[Harlikwin]

45 minutes ago, admiki said:

I love how people get wound up when THEIR realism limit is not met.

I'm just simply pointing out reality. I honestly don't care if people fly it with them. The only thing I want is a server side tic-box to disable em in MP.

57 minutes ago, MoleUK said:

I'm talking about the Petro sight. Not the gun sight, the actual AI Petro sight overlay.

The petro sight and the target unit list be brings up isn't intended to be affected by the NVG looks like, always has been for me tho.

 

Yeah thats realistic as I said. You can't really use NVG's with the sight very well. Even period US stuff had a seperate optical channel for NV intensified stuff. So petro functionally has no NVG when using the sight.