missing info Anyone notice weird issues while trying to use the targeting pod and mavericks together?

[John McClane]

Very frustrating. Tried boresighting them in the air. I use targeting pod to lock something, then switch to maverick SOI and lock the wrong thing, hit TMS aft to break lock and it sends targeting pod back to steerpoint even though thats not SOI. Tried multiple times same issues of targeting pod reacting while maverick is SOI. Tried boresighting on the ground, went better, seems to have worked. Get in the air, use targeting pod to lock up target but maverick is doing its own thing looking off into the wild blue yonder. No auto handoff. Not even attempting to look where the targeting pod is. Go back to targeting pod to try new target and it keeps switching back to maverick SOI every time I hit TMS fwd or aft. So I make targeting pod SOI, hit TMS fwd or aft and it immediately says “Not SOI”. Eventually just nose dived it into the enemy convoy and still missed everything

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Haven't tried the TGP in DCS Viper for a while now. I reckon it's still in development and subject to change/errors. So what you learn today might change some time later. Unless it is already correct and stable but I am not aware of that. As a suggestion, you could try TGP and Mavs in that other sim which is mature and stable and see if you run into the same problems. Yes, operating the two can be frustrating at times. I use Snowplow to reset the TGP when things go wacky and Wide FOV for faster re-slewing. Have to watch out for Cursor Enable which puts the SOI in the HUD and forbids TGP SOI, if I recall right. But all this is in that other sim.    

[SFJackBauer]

I can't reproduce. Here's what I am doing:

 

- TGP on left MFD

- Maverich on right MFD

- Set Maverick as PRE

- TGP as SOI

- Point TGP in general area location

- Maverick as SOI

- Slew and lock target with Maverick with TMS up

- TMS Down, unlock target with Maverick. Mav still SOI and TGP does not move. Can TMS Up to lock again and TMS Down to unlock several times.

 

You don't even need to boresight. Just point the TGP in the general direction, switch SOI to Mav, find target, slew and lock. Boresighting is not 100% required, it just saves you a bit of time.

 

Maybe your Mav mode is not set as PRE. In VIS mode, if you TMS Down SOI goes to HUD. Even then, TGP does not move. So I'd suggest you record a small track and post it so we can see exactly what you are doing.

 

Bear in mind I use Mavericks almost every time I fly and they work 100% of the time.

Edited August 25, 2021 by SFJackBauer

[Furiz]

6 hours ago, John McClane said:

Very frustrating. Tried boresighting them in the air. I use targeting pod to lock something, then switch to maverick SOI and lock the wrong thing, hit TMS aft to break lock and it sends targeting pod back to steerpoint even though thats not SOI. Tried multiple times same issues of targeting pod reacting while maverick is SOI. Tried boresighting on the ground, went better, seems to have worked. Get in the air, use targeting pod to lock up target but maverick is doing its own thing looking off into the wild blue yonder. No auto handoff. Not even attempting to look where the targeting pod is. Go back to targeting pod to try new target and it keeps switching back to maverick SOI every time I hit TMS fwd or aft. So I make targeting pod SOI, hit TMS fwd or aft and it immediately says “Not SOI”. Eventually just nose dived it into the enemy convoy and still missed everything

 

Post a track please, those issues are very strange, I used a lot of TGP with Mav and never had those issues.

 

Check if your keybind for TMS is also not bound for DMS as well.

[TobiasA]

Post a track. Mavericks are a bit difficult to master, but work alright once you got it. I usually include a large building or something in my flight plan which I can use to align while passing over them.
Keep in mind that you need to set the TGP Handoff to "AUTO" (click the OSB over "MAN" to toggle) to enable the auto handoff. After locking a target in the TGP, the SOI toggles to the MAV in case HANDOFF was not in AUTO or not successful. So all you need is to TMS up again in that case, the mav seeker should already point to the line of sight of the TGP.

[John McClane]

Im sure its something Im doing wrong but I cant understand how TMS aft to unlock maverick with maverick as SOI could reset the TGP to the steerpoint. It happened multiple times. The other issue of TGP SOI moving to maverick page is prob the handoff so that makes sense. How do I build a track file? 

[Frederf]

16 hours ago, John McClane said:

Very frustrating. Tried boresighting them in the air. I use targeting pod to lock something, then switch to maverick SOI and lock the wrong thing, hit TMS aft to break lock and it sends targeting pod back to steerpoint even though thats not SOI. Tried multiple times same issues of targeting pod reacting while maverick is SOI. Tried boresighting on the ground, went better, seems to have worked. Get in the air, use targeting pod to lock up target but maverick is doing its own thing looking off into the wild blue yonder. No auto handoff. Not even attempting to look where the targeting pod is. Go back to targeting pod to try new target and it keeps switching back to maverick SOI every time I hit TMS fwd or aft. So I make targeting pod SOI, hit TMS fwd or aft and it immediately says “Not SOI”. Eventually just nose dived it into the enemy convoy and still missed everything

Both ways work but do it the other way around; it works better. Get TGP in AREA near your boresighting target. Then SOI missile and track the target. Once track is successful SOI TGP and POINT track the same boresighting target. If missile tracks the wrong target then simply match it with the TGP, much less headache. Then "BSGT" OSB on WPN format.

 

Make sure you're in EO PRE when you do this by the way. As far as I know the SOI automatic transition won't happen in EO PRE. SOI automatic change is an EO VIS thing.

[SFJackBauer]

5 hours ago, John McClane said:

Im sure its something Im doing wrong but I cant understand how TMS aft to unlock maverick with maverick as SOI could reset the TGP to the steerpoint. It happened multiple times. The other issue of TGP SOI moving to maverick page is prob the handoff so that makes sense. How do I build a track file? 

 

Do you know how to put together a mission in the Mission Editor?

 

Just put a tank in a flat spot somewhere, put your F-16 and load it out with the TGP and Mavs, put a waypoint over the tank and hit Fly. Do the targeting thing in the mission, end the mission. In the Debriefing screen you can save it to a replay file. Upload the replay file here.

[Frederf]

Here's a less than 10 minute track of a ramp start, boresight, and attack with two Maverick against two targets.

F16 Maverick Boresight and RP2 Attack.trk

[QuiGon]

15 hours ago, John McClane said:

Im sure its something Im doing wrong but I cant understand how TMS aft to unlock maverick with maverick as SOI could reset the TGP to the steerpoint. It happened multiple times.

 

I use Mavs+TGP a lot on the Viper and have never seen that. A track file would indeed be very helpful!

 

15 hours ago, John McClane said:

How do I build a track file? 

 

When you end your flight, click on "Save Replay" on the debriefing screen.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Both ways work but do it the other way around; it works better. Get TGP in AREA near your boresighting target. Then SOI missile and track the target. Once track is successful SOI TGP and POINT track the same boresighting target. If missile tracks the wrong target then simply match it with the TGP, much less headache. Then "BSGT" OSB on WPN format.
 
Make sure you're in EO PRE when you do this by the way. As far as I know the SOI automatic transition won't happen in EO PRE. SOI automatic change is an EO VIS thing.

Good point. The Maverick display has a lower zoom level and is more finicky with target locking. So it’s better to settle a good lock with it first, then correlate that lock over at the more efficient TGP. Only thing is if you are doing boresighting in the air you’ll need to get closer or choose a larger object as the Maverick FOV is low.

[Ignition]

I always boresight the mavericks on the ground, its much harder to do it while you're flying. If I need to do it in the air I usually use radars on airports which are really easy to find but I try not to do it in the air.

On the ground I use the runway lights.

 

I've used mavericks recently and to my surprise I didn't have any issues at all. I used both AUTO and MAN in PRE without issues.

 

If your maverick doesn't track correctly after TMS UP (open cross or lock to an incorrect target) you just need to do 1 TMS AFT to reset the lock either on the TGP if in AUTO or the Maverick and it shouldn't reset the steerpoint as you describe.

[SFJackBauer]

On 8/26/2021 at 8:59 PM, Ignition said:

I always boresight the mavericks on the ground, its much harder to do it while you're flying. If I need to do it in the air I usually use radars on airports which are really easy to find but I try not to do it in the air.

On the ground I use the runway lights.

 

I don't know why would it be harder while flying. Fly straight and level with AP on towards a friendly vehicle and lock away.

 

As most of the time I use Mavs in preplanned / BAI, I mostly do boresighting on the first enemy target that I am approaching.

[Ignition]

11 minutes ago, SFJackBauer said:

As most of the time I use Mavs in preplanned / BAI, I mostly do boresighting on the first enemy target that I am approaching.

 

Thats really dangerous, you're approaching to less than 7nm to the enemy to do a boresight and possibly with 2 stations. I do this only while I train and know the units I'm facing. During missions I always boresight on the ground.

[Digitalvole]

I thought I’d put this here rather than start a new thread.

 

Starting on the ramp I think I’ve bore sighted the Mavericks (it moves when I when I move the tgp)  but the mav crosshairs are offset to the right on both pylons.

 

I can’t tell what I’m doing wrong.

 

Also they are usually stuck in vis (get past that by changing weapon on sms but it’s a hassle when all you have is Mavs)

Edited September 30, 2021 by Digitalvole

[darkman222]

Same for me. I had a TGP and Mavs. The Mav was stuck in VIS too. I could not find a workaround. Also not sure if its correct and I am doing something wrong either.

[Digitalvole]

2 hours ago, darkman222 said:

Same for me. I had a TGP and Mavs. The Mav was stuck in VIS too. I could not find a workaround. Also not sure if its correct and I am doing something wrong either.

 If you select a different weapon then back to the mavs it should be changeable again. I had to get ground crew to swap out the mavs on one wing with a cbu 97, select the cbu 97, reselect and change the remaining mav to pre, then get the ground crew to replace the cbu 97 with mavs and they should be pre too. (It doesn’t have to be a cbu 97 but selecting an AA missile didn’t fix it).

 

hope that helps

 

I still can’t use them as every time I bore sight them they are always off target to the right.
 

Edit. Ok I must be blind, there’s a thread on the 1st page about misaligned mavs. Doh! 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Digitalvole

[Sinclair_76]

3 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

I thought I’d put this here rather than start a new thread.

 

Starting on the ramp I think I’ve bore sighted the Mavericks (it moves when I when I move the tgp)  but the mav crosshairs are offset to the right on both pylons.

 

I can’t tell what I’m doing wrong.

 

Also they are usually stuck in vis (get past that by changing weapon on sms but it’s a hassle when all you have is Mavs)

 

 

 

1st point

 

This has to do with parallax. Especially while boresighting at close ranges the line of sight of the TGP and AGM converge. At first this seems ok as both LOS align on the target. But at different (larger) distances this will introduce an error. Therefore you would normally boresight at larger ranges so that both LOS are as parallel as possible. The AH-64 outfront boresight solves this by augmenting the problem with a known range to target, that way it can compensate and converge the LOS close in and set the LOS (near) parallel at larger distances. But it will only work with a distance to target.

With the viper, the alignment at close distance would introduce a large error. But in DCS, the way it currently works, when pressing the boresight button on the MFD the error is automagically removed. At that time the TGP LOS and AGM LOS are parallel. (You can test it by boresighting the TGP on target A and the AGM on target B. Ater the boresight the TGP and AGM will seem aligned at large distance). But with the LOS paralleling it follows that at close distance TGP and AGM are not looking at the same point. (Technically both LOS are not looking at the same point at large distance either but the error is hardly noticable).

2nd point 

There are exceptions but most of the time when the AGM mode is stuck is because it is in a failed lock mode. IIRC the crosshairs are larger. You can reset it by TMS down. The crosshairs will get smaller again and you can change the mode.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Sinclair_76

[Digitalvole]

Thank you for the great explanation Sinclair_76, I had been bore sighting on some crates in the opposite hanger from mine just after startup, and as you’ve described that would explain what I’m seeing with the miss alignment. Cheers

 

Point 2 I think is a bug, as it’s like that from the moment the jets powered up.

[Ignition]

6 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

Thank you for the great explanation Sinclair_76, I had been bore sighting on some crates in the opposite hanger from mine just after startup, and as you’ve described that would explain what I’m seeing with the miss alignment. Cheers

 

Point 2 I think is a bug, as it’s like that from the moment the jets powered up.

 

Don't worry about boresight parallax. I always boresight a few meteres in front of the plane when on the ramp usually with the taxi lights or a vehicle. It works , I use mavericks regularly and never have any issue aligning both the TGP and maverick to the target.

 

If it wasn't the case, at 10nm the maverick would look way outside the target.

 

[Digitalvole]

1 hour ago, Ignition said:

 

Don't worry about boresight parallax. I always boresight a few meteres in front of the plane when on the ramp usually with the taxi lights or a vehicle. It works , I use mavericks regularly and never have any issue aligning both the TGP and maverick to the target.

 

If it wasn't the case, at 10nm the maverick would look way outside the target.

 

I’d watched a tutorial a while back, and he was using his wingman’s front wheel before taxi. So I just thought I was cocking it up somehow (usually the case). This is good to know, thank you

[Sinclair_76]

4 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

I’d watched a tutorial a while back, and he was using his wingman’s front wheel before taxi. So I just thought I was cocking it up somehow (usually the case). This is good to know, thank you

Due to how it's coded in DCS, you could lock two different targets with the TGP and the AGM and boresight. It does'nt matter how you do it, the boresight function will remove the error. But because of that, close in it will seem as a botched boresight becuse the two LOS don't line up.

[Bluto74]

On 8/26/2021 at 6:59 PM, Ignition said:

I always boresight the mavericks on the ground, its much harder to do it while you're flying. If I need to do it in the air I usually use radars on airports which are really easy to find but I try not to do it in the air.

On the ground I use the runway lights.

 

I've used mavericks recently and to my surprise I didn't have any issues at all. I used both AUTO and MAN in PRE without issues.

 

If your maverick doesn't track correctly after TMS UP (open cross or lock to an incorrect target) you just need to do 1 TMS AFT to reset the lock either on the TGP if in AUTO or the Maverick and it shouldn't reset the steerpoint as you describe.

I agree with this post. The maverick is the one weapon, at least to me that is easier to use on the hornet with the tgp. I do the bore sight on the ground too and still have trouble with consistency when locking. I just started using vis mode and having better luck. Sometimes 2 per pass. Just more training I guess will make it easier. It’s a fun weapon to use for sure.