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Troubles controlling the hind


Passero

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I just got the hind and find it very difficult to control... I both have the UH-1 and KA-50 so I'm not new to helicopters but the hind seems very different... 

 

When I do the training mission for startup and take off, the helicopter starts to become very unstable even when taxiing. As soon as I release the wheel brake, it starts moving and it can't seem to stop it easily although the collective is all the way down. Pressing the wheel brake doesn't help either except for unsettling it even more. 

 

When I try to do a standing take off (without rolling), the helicopter starts to spin out of control. 

 

Any tips? 

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1 hour ago, Passero said:

I just got the hind and find it very difficult to control... I both have the UH-1 and KA-50 so I'm not new to helicopters but the hind seems very different... 

 

When I do the training mission for startup and take off, the helicopter starts to become very unstable even when taxiing. As soon as I release the wheel brake, it starts moving and it can't seem to stop it easily although the collective is all the way down. Pressing the wheel brake doesn't help either except for unsettling it even more. 

 

When I try to do a standing take off (without rolling), the helicopter starts to spin out of control. 

 

Any tips? 

Disc is tilted forward, so you need back cyclic to stop rolling and you need quite a lot. 

It's a high helicopter, with relatively narrow LG, so it wan't to roll.

As for spining, check your weight. Hind requires way more pedal than any other DCS heli, and if over 100% MGTW, you will run out of right pedal.

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23 minutes ago, Passero said:

Ah ok, thanks. I'll have a check. Meanwhile I noticed the blades run different than the Huey so that probably messed with my brain as well during take off. 

Will need some more practice 😉

Only American choppers have counter clockwise spinning rotors. Rest of the World flies with clockwise spinning rotor. So your action on the rudder is opposite. If you got a lot of flight hours on the Huey it will mess you up a bit. Also, as Miki says. even with collective full down it is possible that you still have a bit of downwash that will push your aircraft. Make sure your rotor disc is perfectly horizontal before full throttle on your engines. You can check that by displaying your controls position (RALT+ENTER).

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It starts to get better with some practice 🙂 

 

One thing that I still don't understand is the trimmer. I watch a video from a few months ago and they said then when pressing the trimmer, it should remain in the position but when I watch my controls on RALT+Enter, it doesn't do that. 

The trimmer does seem to do something but from what I can tell, is it something similar to the trimmer on the KA-50? Where it just works with the AP instead of actually setting the position of the stick? Is that something that changed in an update since that video came out? Or am I doing something wrong? 

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Am 25.8.2021 um 20:44 schrieb Passero:

It starts to get better with some practice 🙂 

 

One thing that I still don't understand is the trimmer. I watch a video from a few months ago and they said then when pressing the trimmer, it should remain in the position but when I watch my controls on RALT+Enter, it doesn't do that. 

The trimmer does seem to do something but from what I can tell, is it something similar to the trimmer on the KA-50? Where it just works with the AP instead of actually setting the position of the stick? Is that something that changed in an update since that video came out? Or am I doing something wrong? 


first of all, with the last 1,5 patches things have changed.

fe the AP H-channel (for НАПРАВЛЕНИ,  now "Heading channel", actually the "yaw DAMPENER") should now be turned OFF if you want to have any semblance of the Hinds winglet effect (before, needed to be turned ON if you wanted to have a semblance of how it manages the torque pedals).

Now any standard joystick seems to also work better with "central position trimmer" than "default".

Apart from that. When you trim (press the button, release the button), you have to release the cylic/joystick to the center position in both modes, then you will fly trimmed and your inputs are registered from the new trim position (cylic will be arrested in the cockpit render at the new trim position).
But that is also currently a little.. bugged. Basically expect to trim.. and then trim a second time.. or finetune/finalize the trim via coolie hat commands (manual trim).

Also - the Hind has a unique flight envelope, not like the Shark, not like the Hip, not like the Huey... not like any other rotary.
It is heavy (although currently... but that is offtopic), it is forward translation oriented, it has a unique feel in the relation of orientation, cylcic, collective, torque.

Also be advized that there is currently ZERO feedback for entering VRS.. expect you drop like a stone (well, used to.. currently... but that is offtopic). That will at some point change.
And RBS and VRS are very relevant for your envelope experience. To the point where you might even skim RBS all the time in some maneuvers, intentionally.

Also it is a hands-on rotary.. that requires finesse and attention. You do not "throw it around", you are proactive and reactive in inputs and observant in behaviour (although currently... but that is offtopic).

But the trim will ALWAYS set the stick (visually represented and input coded) and will ALWAYS set the torque pedals (visually represented and coded, if "yaw trimmer" clicked) APART from what the dampener channels and the AP-suite modes do on top.

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Through my experience, you dont want to just trim the aircraft with the trim button; you want to trim using the hat switch. If you feel you must trim, use the trim button while on the runway - hold the trim button down while you adjust your stick positioned correctly to maintain a hover power check. When you have a proper hover, push the nose down, then start applying trim from the hat switch to adjust your flight profile. It sounds like a lot, but its a lot better than hitting the trim button/trim reset and watching your heli do something unexpected..which it WILL do if you arent prepared for it. Nope, just trim on the ground holding the trimmer button and release when you're satisfied with a decent hover. THEN use the trim hat for further flight. When you feel comfortable with it, then AND ONLY THEN use the trim button.

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6 hours ago, rogorogo said:


the AP H-channel (for НАПРАВЛЕНИ,  now "Heading channel", actually the "yaw DAMPENER") should now be turned OFF if you want to have any semblance of the Hinds winglet effect (before, needed to be turned ON if you wanted to have a semblance of how it manages the torque pedals).

 

 

What is the winglet effect and why would the AP YAW channel affect it? I fly with the channel always on, and I haven't noticed anything different?

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vor 8 Stunden schrieb Lurker:

 

What is the winglet effect and why would the AP YAW channel affect it? I fly with the channel always on, and I haven't noticed anything different?


The weapon pylons had a secondary function added by also mounting lift surfaces optimized for the "usual" aiframe orientation in forward translation - generating lift and thus affecting the envelope.
Thus if forward translation you can effectively bank without adding torque control (slight nose up pitch in the turn of keep VSI neutral).

Since the YAW-damepener now acts as a heading-mode channel you can only bank when adding torque input - which results in the remnant of the dampener plus the heading-characertistic sometimes effectively fighting against the pilot-input.

The winglet effect - only noticeable currently with H-channel in off is currently also barely noticeable since there is a general mass/inertia/weight issue with the module at the moment.
Something which has been reported, now thankfully gets noticed by some more people.
Also the threshold limit for a winglet bank (pitch+roll only) has changed significantly, not matter the noticeablity of the effect itself in general (which ofc does not only manifest in turns.. but most will just fly the airframe, not notice or distinguish the separate input factors of a particular envelope part)
This issue might have its source somewhere or be the result of an unfortunale bugchain (many changes working together resulting in an overall bug) - often referred to as momentarily "twitchy nose", the Hind twitching out of banks, VRS often feeling like some trigger-state instead of an actual physics effect and envelope result aso.

If you were not conscious of the winglet effect before (nothing wrong with that) you can barely feel/notice it at the moment - turning the H-channel off will just result in being able to turn without torque input (unless you intentionally initiate aggressive turns, speedhooks or combat maneuvers).

With the H-channel on you will not notice anything.... since it will be as before... moreso if you have yaw-trim off in the module properties, thus the pedals/twistaxis never assuming a "new" neutral state by trimming.. making the dampener less pronounced by default on top.

And yes, the H-channelf of course would not affet the winglet effect in itself, only the torque input necessity - currently it just does coincidentally. But the H-channel randomly goes to max without a change in airframe orientation in random situations too at the moment. It is a little bit confusing sometimes, like the channel not being able to decide whether it is a gyro-based dampener or a gyro-compass orientation mode.

Plainly spoken.. in the experience translation of a flightsim, without the diverse visceral physical feedback the module was more fidelic in behaviour, experience and the necessity of proactive and reactive flying before. But ofc that is complicated, is not easily accessible for most (unless by subliminal feel).
As the Hind is an Eagle module If and how Eagle adresses this, no one can say - their "feedback" to the bugreports and feedback is thus far and as usual very... well... Eagle Dynamics.
 

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The yaw AP channel doesn’t randomly switch from gyro dampener to heading hold, it is the center 18% of travel it is heading hold and beyond that gyro dampener. The real aircraft having micro switches to detect when your feet are on the pedals, with feet on pedals it’s in gyro dampener mode and feet off it’s in heading hold, this is ED’s attempt to simulate this like they did for Mi-8 but with addition of gyro dampener mode. 
 

I don’t like it either, it should be a separate binding or special options selectable. But I also don’t see what it has to do with the effect of the wings, which are obvious to me no matter what state the AP is in. 
 

and Lurker I would take both this winglet being counteracted by yaw AP and weight/inertia issue with a grain of salt. There is some threads on it with people talking about how they feel it handles and how they feel it used to handle heavier, but it’s confirmed there are still flight model tweaks to be made especially with the AP 

 

 


Edited by AeriaGloria
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