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Big FPS drop in VR / multiplayer / passing other players


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Hey all,

 

In multiplayer I'm noticing a pattern with several others who have decent spec'd machines in VR, 3000series GPU etc that has been a problem since the last update or 2...

 

If you pass a group of 2-3 aircraft (for example a fly by) the FPS go from smooth to 1-2fps for about half a second or so - then normal again... If however you fly in formation with 10 guys, the FPS drop is marginal at worst.... But fly off a minute, and come back.... again a huge FPS hit.

 

Its as if the graphics/textures or whatever is reloading every time. This is on 32gb ssd 3080 setup, and otherwise I dont have the fps issues that many are describing.

 

The FPS hit reminds me very much of the F14 fps hit when you flew past one of those (even if you were in one) back when that came out. Its like it reloaded every time. That was since fixed, but now the glitch seems to happen with all the aircraft.

 

I hope i have given more than enough info to help deal with this and reproduce easy (just join any half busy MP server). Thx

. . . . . . .

Every module/ map except the dual winged joke.

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This relates to my computer as well.

When I fly the Cat in MP, fighting against F-18s and F-16s, and things become hot (enemy near), the sim gives me 1 to 2 fps for about 2-3 seconds.

Total mess in memory/re-load strategy, I already have upgraded from 32 to 40MB RAM.

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Hello,

 

VRAM overload that need repeated unloading/loading could be the problem yes ( low free VRAM managment )

 

- Could somebody that have a 24 GB VRAM graphic card should try to repeat the problem ?

- Could you try with the ligth version of the F14 cockpit ?

 ( this F14 mod has been created because of too much VRAM need )

On my side, i own a 1080ti ( 11,5 go )

and i didn't met this problem yet.


So I'll try to fly in a F18 & F16 formation in my next VR multiplayer week-end session

( fly near, fly far away  one minute and then fly near the formation )


Edited by fab.13
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On 9/7/2021 at 6:59 PM, fab.13 said:

Hello,

- Could you try with the ligth version of the F14 cockpit ?

 ( this F14 mod has been created because of too much VRAM need )

 

Yep, I will give it a try. Which one should I try?
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/3303917/ or

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/3303911/ or

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/3313661/

 

I'm on 1080ti overclocked with 11GB VRAM, and the effect happend with that graphics card (the same as for my older GTX1070).

 

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Hello,

 

I'll try without mod in first time ( to reproduce the problem )

Then a i'll try the first one

 

You could try the third one ? ( reduced size in description)

 

Note your VRAM usage some times ( take off, merging the formation, before remerging formation )

 

The idea is to check is reducing VRAM need could help


Edited by fab.13
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Hello,

 

I could not have done the test on last week-end, i'll  give a try on next one

By the way, if you are using WMR, you should read this thread , and  test:

 

- some people said they succeed to decrease vram need at start

- some people said they have to restart DCS some time to workaround some VRAM leaks bug,

        - so "SELECT ROLE" multiple time in the same multiplayer session should be avoided ( restart DCS for each "SELECT ROLE" )

 

 


Edited by fab.13
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This is what I did (reference to the original post) and it seemed to make a difference so I put together a really rough guide on how to create symbolic links. I started with just texture files and saw some small improvements with certain modules but decided to see what happened if I did a symbolic link for the whole DCS root folder. 

 

I never did any formal benchmarking as this was a personal endeavour and I was going purely from what I observed and felt, however the theory behind the test was to prevent windows from committing large commonly used files constantly being accessed and forcing them into memory along with DCS, the theory is to clear memory for DCS related textures and background files being used for the DCS program.

 

From my understanding how windows was designed was to allow commonly accessed files to be committed to virtual memory to facilitate performance especially for large file manipulation, however this can be problematic with games using considerable amounts of system memory for textures. By moving files outside the program executable but maintaining the path tricks windows into thinking that these files are no longer being commonly accessed thus freeing up memory purely for DCS without interference from windows.

 

This was especially noticeable with the Syria map and its large densely populated urban areas as well as some areas of trees and vegetation, other improvements I noticed were modules added into the scenery with complex textures, (large texture files being accessed many times by windows). My goal is to see if I can get a consistent smooth experience across both single player and multiplayer scenarios,

 

I want to mention this is based off my own in game graphics settings so take into account all variables from system to system.

 

However I was quite surprised...

 

I originally put the guide together for squad members and my own personal use if you find my guide confusing google Symbolic links and read up on it.

 

Hope this helps😉

 

How to Create a Symbolic link for DCS World.docx

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/15/2021 at 6:06 PM, RuskyV said:

moving files outside the program executable but maintaining the path tricks windows into thinking that these files are no longer being commonly accessed thus freeing up memory purely for DCS without interference from windows.

 

 

I appreciate the write-up and everything. But I have a general question:  how do you confirm that moving the game files to a symbolic link frees up RAM for DCS to use? 

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  • 1 month later...

This sounds very interesting.  Do you know if it will work as well for a Steam Install? 

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On 11/1/2021 at 8:43 AM, WipeUout said:

This sounds very interesting.  Do you know if it will work as well for a Steam Install? 

I don’t have the steam version however I can’t see why it wouldn’t work,  you would need look at were the root install is and work out where you want the symbolic link. 

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On 9/24/2021 at 2:45 PM, peachmonkey said:

 

 

I appreciate the write-up and everything. But I have a general question:  how do you confirm that moving the game files to a symbolic link frees up RAM for DCS to use? 

I originally started using the symbolic link purely for the scenery textures on the Syrian map which I noticed some of the files in there were being access many times over, I then assumed that those files were being committed to memory for faster access in windows. Thing is DCS already commits these files as textures in memory so when windows takes that same file and dumps it in memory it means it’s using either memory or possibly a pages file. by stoping that process from happening CPU and memory get a break from juggling these large files.

I then did the same thing for the cockpit textures because I know these are stupidly big files, when I did it I instantly noticed that these textures were loading a lot faster with no delay and with much better performance when panning around inside.

As I experimented further I got to a point where I thought why don’t I just do this for the whole damn folder that contained everything, results were faster loading cockpit textures, less micro stuttering and a more consistent frame rate. 
 

As mentioned before mileage may vary but I’m happy with what I’ve seen.

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12 hours ago, RuskyV said:

I originally started using the symbolic link purely for the scenery textures on the Syrian map which I noticed some of the files in there were being access many times over, I then assumed that those files were being committed to memory for faster access in windows. Thing is DCS already commits these files as textures in memory so when windows takes that same file and dumps it in memory it means it’s using either memory or possibly a pages file. by stoping that process from happening CPU and memory get a break from juggling these large files.

I then did the same thing for the cockpit textures because I know these are stupidly big files, when I did it I instantly noticed that these textures were loading a lot faster with no delay and with much better performance when panning around inside.

As I experimented further I got to a point where I thought why don’t I just do this for the whole damn folder that contained everything, results were faster loading cockpit textures, less micro stuttering and a more consistent frame rate. 
 

As mentioned before mileage may vary but I’m happy with what I’ve seen.

 

thank you for the explanation!  How much RAM do you have in your system?

I'm running with 32GB RAM... 

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Hey RuskyV!

I worked a lot with links in the past, so it was very funny for me to see the long description about one single command in the shell :biggrin:
Anyway, even beginners will have a good description, and kudos for your efforts from my side.

But I still have a question to you relating to Windows interals (you might be a professional,... are you?).
You wrote:
"By moving files outside the program executable but maintaining the path tricks windows into thinking that these files are no longer being commonly accessed thus freeing up memory purely for DCS without interference from windows."
Just for my understanding: Is it that Windows now "sees" that the folder (in fact the link) is empty (but pointing to another directory), and thus doesn't start loading any (textures, ...) files from this folder into its own Windows cache/memory?

Allow me to shorten you description for the non-beginnners:
.) Change to the directory containing the DCS installation, e.g. c:\games
.) Remember original DCS directory name, e.g. DCS.Openbeta
.) Rename original DCS directory e.g. to DCS.Openbeta.backup
.) Create new DCS directory with any name, e.g DCS.Openbeta.new
.) Start Command-Shell (CMD.EXE)
   - There change to the directory that contains the DCS directories, e.g. type the following:   cd C:\games
   - There type the following:    mklink /j "C:\games\DCS.Openbeta" "C:\games\DCS.Openbeta.new"
.) Cut all directories and files from the DCS.Openbeta.backup folder and paste them in the newly created DCS.Openbeta.new folder
.) Play DCS and have fun

Let's see if the low-fps-when-passing-multiplayer-buddies problem is gone ...

Anyway, thanks bud for this fantastic tip!
Kind regards,
TOViper

 


Edited by TOViper
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12 hours ago, TOViper said:

Hey RuskyV!

I worked a lot with links in the past, so it was very funny for me to see the long description about one single command in the shell :biggrin:
Anyway, even beginners will have a good description, and kudos for your efforts from my side.

But I still have a question to you relating to Windows interals (you might be a professional,... are you?).
You wrote:
"By moving files outside the program executable but maintaining the path tricks windows into thinking that these files are no longer being commonly accessed thus freeing up memory purely for DCS without interference from windows."
Just for my understanding: Is it that Windows now "sees" that the folder (in fact the link) is empty (but pointing to another directory), and thus doesn't start loading any (textures, ...) files from this folder into its own Windows cache/memory?

Allow me to shorten you description for the non-beginnners:
.) Change to the directory containing the DCS installation, e.g. c:\games
.) Remember original DCS directory name, e.g. DCS.Openbeta
.) Rename original DCS directory e.g. to DCS.Openbeta.backup
.) Create new DCS directory with any name, e.g DCS.Openbeta.new
.) Start Command-Shell (CMD.EXE)
   - There change to the directory that contains the DCS directories, e.g. type the following:   cd C:\games
   - There type the following:    mklink /j "C:\games\DCS.Openbeta" "C:\games\DCS.Openbeta.new"
.) Cut all directories and files from the DCS.Openbeta.backup folder and paste them in the newly created DCS.Openbeta.new folder
.) Play DCS and have fun

Let's see if the low-fps-when-passing-multiplayer-buddies problem is gone ...

Anyway, thanks bud for this fantastic tip!
Kind regards,
TOViper

 

 

Hi Rusky and TOViper, i made exacly like yours instructions step by step but my 2 folders it's empty why?

before run the mklink i have 2 folders DCS open beta.new and DCS open beta. backup,  right?   when i type mklink /j "D:\DCS.Openbeta" "D:\DCS.Openbeta.new" hit ENTER

say junction created for D:\DCS.Openbeta <<===>> D:\DCS.Openbeta.new  and now i have 3 sub folders DCS open beta.new(empty) , DCS open beta.backup (original files) & DCS open beta (empty) it's that correct? but if the 2 folders it's empty why i need to CUT & PASTE, well i make it like instructions say but for me the problem persist, help please

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5 hours ago, piolin23000 said:

... but for me the problem persist, help please

which problem?
a) with the instructions or
b) you have still long loading times and stutter when passing other players?

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17 hours ago, piolin23000 said:

say junction created for D:\DCS.Openbeta <<===>> D:\DCS.Openbeta.new  and now i have 3 sub folders DCS open beta.new(empty) , DCS open beta.backup (original files) & DCS open beta (empty) it's that correct? but if the 2 folders it's empty why i need to CUT & PASTE, well i make it like instructions say but for me the problem persist, help please

If the junction has been created then you need to cut and paste the contents from D:\DCS.Openbeta into DCS.Openbeta.new

When you double click and open your original D:\DCS.Openbeta folder it will open as normal showing the DCS files, this shows that the folder junction is working. 

On 11/3/2021 at 12:50 PM, peachmonkey said:

 

thank you for the explanation!  How much RAM do you have in your system?

I'm running with 32GB RAM... 

Hi There!,

I have the same amount of memory as you 😉

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Thank you for this. If nothing else ive learned something new.  

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2021/9/7 PM10点45分,TOViper说:

This relates to my computer as well.

When I fly the Cat in MP, fighting against F-18s and F-16s, and things become hot (enemy near), the sim gives me 1 to 2 fps for about 2-3 seconds.

Total mess in memory/re-load strategy, I already have upgraded from 32 to 40MB RAM.

Is the problem solved after increasing the ram?
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On 11/3/2021 at 6:06 PM, TOViper said:

Hey RuskyV!

I worked a lot with links in the past, so it was very funny for me to see the long description about one single command in the shell :biggrin:
Anyway, even beginners will have a good description, and kudos for your efforts from my side.

But I still have a question to you relating to Windows interals (you might be a professional,... are you?).
You wrote:
"By moving files outside the program executable but maintaining the path tricks windows into thinking that these files are no longer being commonly accessed thus freeing up memory purely for DCS without interference from windows."
Just for my understanding: Is it that Windows now "sees" that the folder (in fact the link) is empty (but pointing to another directory), and thus doesn't start loading any (textures, ...) files from this folder into its own Windows cache/memory?

Allow me to shorten you description for the non-beginnners:
.) Change to the directory containing the DCS installation, e.g. c:\games
.) Remember original DCS directory name, e.g. DCS.Openbeta
.) Rename original DCS directory e.g. to DCS.Openbeta.backup
.) Create new DCS directory with any name, e.g DCS.Openbeta.new
.) Start Command-Shell (CMD.EXE)
   - There change to the directory that contains the DCS directories, e.g. type the following:   cd C:\games
   - There type the following:    mklink /j "C:\games\DCS.Openbeta" "C:\games\DCS.Openbeta.new"
.) Cut all directories and files from the DCS.Openbeta.backup folder and paste them in the newly created DCS.Openbeta.new folder
.) Play DCS and have fun

Let's see if the low-fps-when-passing-multiplayer-buddies problem is gone ...

Anyway, thanks bud for this fantastic tip!
Kind regards,
TOViper

 

 

Wow, this hack does seem to work! Just flew in GS and my shared GPU Memory never went over 0.2 GB (Dedicated has maxed at 10.5/11 GB) and I did not have the slideshows like earlier today on this server. Will test more in the coming days, but fingers crossed! However, googling why this trick works to disable file caching yielded no results. 


Edited by impalor

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my FPS dropped , and I had to dumb down some settings... had I not, I would no longer be able to fly


Edited by Ramstein

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My open beta is totally unplayable in VR at the moment for me. single digit FPS (Down from 30s to 45+). Tried dropping settings to FAR lower (literally dropped all settings to min/off, 1/3rd previous resolution) and managed to get up to low teens FPS on the ground.

RTX 3070, 32GB RAM, R5 3600

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1 hour ago, A2597 said:

My open beta is totally unplayable in VR at the moment for me. single digit FPS (Down from 30s to 45+). Tried dropping settings to FAR lower (literally dropped all settings to min/off, 1/3rd previous resolution) and managed to get up to low teens FPS on the ground.

RTX 3070, 32GB RAM, R5 3600

Windows settings:
 Windows Gaming Mode disabled?
 Graphics Performance Setting for DCS.exe set to "High performance"?
 Captures disabled?

Nvidia Control Panel:
 Power Management Mode set to "Prefer maximum performance"?
 Texture filtering - Quality set to "High performance"?

DCS settings:
 Visibility set to "Medium"? (all above are VERY expensive ... )
 Shadows set to "Flat"?
 Ground shadows set to "Flat"?
 

graphic_settings_to_be_set.png

captures_mode_settings_to_be_set.png

game_mode_settings_to_be_set.png

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all the above is set (aside from shadows medium, terrain shadows flat).  I had DCS working pretty much "as good as I could", then had to take a couple weeks off flying because of life...came back, updated, and lost all my FPS. (Only DCS though, other games fine).

I'm far from alone on this judging by the closed topics, so I'll just wait for the fix. Just adding my voice to the chorus.

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4 hours ago, A2597 said:

all the above is set (aside from shadows medium, terrain shadows flat).  I had DCS working pretty much "as good as I could", then had to take a couple weeks off flying because of life...came back, updated, and lost all my FPS. (Only DCS though, other games fine).

I'm far from alone on this judging by the closed topics, so I'll just wait for the fix. Just adding my voice to the chorus.

I dont know if ED still want logs and dxdiags from those affected but I dont think it would hurt to start a thread with them posted as ED requested last week. Theres been a lot of chimfin but relatively few have provided the info ED ask for

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Gear: MFG Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle, Virpil T50CM gen 1 stick, TIR5, Cougar MFD (OOA), D-link H7/B powered USB 2.0 Hub all strapped to a butchered Wheel stand pro, Cushion to bang head on, wall to scream at.  

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