"Stamina/fatigue" system for pilot

[Cmptohocah]

The thing is: in DCS it's completely possible to be on the edge of loosing consciousness, keep that state indefinitely and look around and flip switches in the cockpit and after returning to normal state, it's possible to repeat the same thing endless number of times.

That's why I feel (think) it's not realistic and a bit arcady-like.

 

[Revi]

16 hours ago, WRAITH said:

+1 but not a bar just improved modelling keeping more simple less game like, if you will.

 

Examples

 

https://youtu.be/GhGucWnyORU

 

https://youtu.be/tMVNWZ4FzwM

 

The bar is not literally, that is why i said "invisible" it is simply a way of doing this mechanic, or do you have another solution to measure fatigue in DCS?

 

On 8/28/2021 at 1:21 AM, shagrat said:

I understood Revi's idea as "exhaustion" through pulling Gs, not being tired, dehydrated or just having a bad day.

I am not sure, but isn't the current system already with some sort of timer when you go over a certain amount of Gs, so when you pull too hard, you don't just have the tunnel vision, but the screen blacks out and if you keep that too long you suffer G-loc, the same when you pull over the maximum G threshold?

Yes indeed, my idea was for getting exhausted by pulling Gs for a long time, which would increase your fatigue and thus decrease the time it takes to black out. 

 

However, the system we have currently results in people being able to pull Gs for eternity by simply staying on that edge before it completely blacks out.

This system would counter that. 

 

Also i see you asked about how to show the player that he is more or less fatigued, i feel like i answered already but will again, you could simulate it by bluriness, tunnel vision (that we already have), there are many ways to do this, see for example other games as a reference. 

 

 

[Ravenus]

Yep I agree. The other ww2 sim has this implemented and the G model is fantastic, but there is a debate atm whether the stamina bar is too low. I´m fine with introducing it as long as it simulates an above average fit pilot, because let´s face it, we fat sim f*ks like to think of ourselves as sh*t hot ace pilots.

[shagrat]

Am 30.8.2021 um 10:40 schrieb Cmptohocah:

The thing is: in DCS it's completely possible to be on the edge of loosing consciousness, keep that state indefinitely and look around and flip switches in the cockpit and after returning to normal state, it's possible to repeat the same thing endless number of times.

That's why I feel (think) it's not realistic and a bit arcady-like.

 

In DCS you have to look at a switch to be able to switch it. You can only operate them in your field of view (2D and VR alike).

A pilot under the effect / pressure of Gs will feel the switch and operate it, without looking at it. IRL the pilot feels(!) how exhausted he is, as well as he feels(!) the G- forces. The later is somehow simulated with visual cues and heavy breathing in a limited way.

Now, if we add "artificial" (blurry vision, tunnel view etc.) we add another "unrealistic" visual cue to simulate the physical feedback. If we start adding visual or audio cues for everything we can't feel, it's not going to be more "realistic", but at some point oversaturated with artificial cues... Add that on top of all the "unrealistic" limitations we suffer already, like no peripheral vision, not everyone having a 1:1 Simpit replica to operate without looking, just by touch. No motion feedback to feel drift, acceleration, deceleration, movement, etc. what is the point? Make it the most difficult arcade game on the planet? Because it can't add "realism", only simulate additional difficulty.

I'd rather see enhancements to the AI and a living environment.

Anyway, as long as it is an optional setting, I am fine. I just don't see it adding immersion or realism for me. But I am not the guy to circle for minutes close to blackout anyway, as I tend to react on the existing cues pretty well.

[Cmptohocah]

RL fighter pilot explains that when starting to slip into blackout, one looses color vision:

 

[jaguara5]

 In that context, would it be possible / '' more realistic'' to introduce (as an option for the player) reduced head movement capability (for trackir / vr / hat switch) under heavy g  loads? So when you are pulling 9 g's  you can't move your view (in a BFM fight) as easy as in a straight and level flight (i'm curious how are real pilots dealing with that IRL).  

[SharpeXB]

24 minutes ago, jaguara5 said:

 In that context, would it be possible / '' more realistic'' to introduce (as an option for the player) reduced head movement capability (for trackir / vr / hat switch) under heavy g  loads? So when you are pulling 9 g's  you can't move your view (in a BFM fight) as easy as in a straight and level flight (i'm curious how are real pilots dealing with that IRL).  

Not unless you can create force feedback VR

[Lurker]

There is no good solution here that will make everyone happy. In fact, if the devs ever implement something along these lines it will probably cause an outcry among the most vocal fanbase and will probably alienate quite a bit of the silent majority. An unhappy player-base equals less income for Eagle Dynamics in the long run. 

 

I will ask this question though, have the devs implemented more G tolerance yet in the F16 compared to the other fighters due to the seat inclination? 

[Cmptohocah]

24 minutes ago, Lurker said:

There is no good solution here that will make everyone happy. In fact, if the devs ever implement something along these lines it will probably cause an outcry among the most vocal fanbase and will probably alienate quite a bit of the silent majority. An unhappy player-base equals less income for Eagle Dynamics in the long run. 

 

I will ask this question though, have the devs implemented more G tolerance yet in the F16 compared to the other fighters due to the seat inclination? 

Well the real question then is: is this a simulator or a fund raiser? If it's the latter, I have nothing to more to add then.
Also, I guess this would be added as realism option, just like everything else.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Cmptohocah

[Lurker]

12 minutes ago, Cmptohocah said:

Well the real question then is: is this a simulator or a fund raiser? 

 

 

Seriously? It's a business. You know, the reason why we get all these nice things to play with is because, primarily Eagle Dynamics needs to at least break even. Or do you think it's better if they go out of business and we end up having no DCS World at all?

Edited September 1, 2021 by Lurker

[Killshot0597]

5 hours ago, Lurker said:

Seriously? It's a business. You know, the reason why we get all these nice things to play with is because, primarily Eagle Dynamics needs to at least break even. Or do you think it's better if they go out of business and we end up having no DCS World at all?

If this does come with DCS it'll be implemented as an option, what's wrong about that? I'd say adding this feature is an option should please both sides.

[MAXsenna]

In DCS you have to look at a switch to be able to switch it. You can only operate them in your field of view (2D and VR alike).
A pilot under the effect / pressure of Gs will feel the switch and operate it, without looking at it. IRL the pilot feels(!) how exhausted he is, as well as he feels(!) the G- forces. The later is somehow simulated with visual cues and heavy breathing in a limited way.
Now, if we add "artificial" (blurry vision, tunnel view etc.) we add another "unrealistic" visual cue to simulate the physical feedback. If we start adding visual or audio cues for everything we can't feel, it's not going to be more "realistic", but at some point oversaturated with artificial cues... Add that on top of all the "unrealistic" limitations we suffer already, like no peripheral vision, not everyone having a 1:1 Simpit replica to operate without looking, just by touch. No motion feedback to feel drift, acceleration, deceleration, movement, etc. what is the point? Make it the most difficult arcade game on the planet? Because it can't add "realism", only simulate additional difficulty.
I'd rather see enhancements to the AI and a living environment.
Anyway, as long as it is an optional setting, I am fine. I just don't see it adding immersion or realism for me. But I am not the guy to circle for minutes close to blackout anyway, as I tend to react on the existing cues pretty well.

Word!

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[Mad_Shell]

Up! Because it seems quite important to have a somewhat realistic G fatigue implemented for a combat flight sim... Seeing real life pilots turning G effect off when playing DCS because it's so unrealistic tells you something is wrong...

[wilbur81]

On 8/27/2021 at 6:33 AM, Revi said:

Hey guys!
I just had a very interesting conversation with a couple of people on the DCS discord about implementing a system that would simulate the pilot fatigue resulted from pulling sustained Gs. 

To summarise this, a very global and broad idea:

-Have a invisible "stamina" bar, which drains when pulling Gs, from lets say 3G up or more, and refills when not pulling Gs, the amount of time needed, or values can all be discussed in here. 
The lower the "stamina" bar, the faster you black out when pulling high Gs, besides that, some effects of lets say blurriness could also be implemented, the higher the "stamina" bar, the longer is takes to black out. 

 

I personally feel like such a system would greatly improve BFM and well, the whole flying experience, since it would force you to think before you do something, "Do i want to pull high Gs from the start to get a advantage?" "Do i want to play the long game and try to fatigue my opponent?" etc etc.

 

Feel free to join in and brainstorm with me here, also, i am interested to hear your opinion on why, or why not this would be a good/bad idea. 

 

 

 

I like this idea. ED has already implemented the need to have a "g-warmup" in order to increase tolerance... the stamina bar would be another cool addition down the road.