Is ED letting down their VR customers?? Yes I'm venting!

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

I have been helping people with performance issues in VR and 2d for many years in DCS, fact is even on two machines that are the same in every way can perform differently. It is a minefield and the silicon lottery is real, chips can perform differently and still be in the +/- for their spec. 

 

VR performance is something we are always looking at, we are obviously working on Vulkan and multicore improvements but it will take time and can not be rushed, as soon as we have news to share we will share it, we are hopeful things will improve but lets not count our chickens until they have hatched. 

 

thanks

 

No worries BN. The problem is usually not in DCS World, but in the myriad of middleware software (WMR\WMR for Steam\SteamVR) and or Windows\DirectX, plus user error which compounds the problems people have. Sure DCS could run a lot better (and I know ED is working on it) however in this case I was just using this thread so I can get some help with setting up the G2 so it can run at an acceptable frame rate. (Maybe if I sort out my issues, it helps others at some point)

 

Since my system is: i5-9600K@4.8 Ghz, RTX3090, SSD M2 NME (exclusive for DCS World), 32 GB ram, and a pretty hefty cooling solution all round it should not be beyond my means. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Lurker

[speed-of-heat]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

For the life of me I can't remember which files are safe to delete, is it safe to delete everything here? 

%USERPROFILE% \Saved Games\DCS\Config

just options.lua 

[Lurker]

@speed-of-heat

 

Thank. Just to let you know where I am. I cleaned my PC case. Applied new thermal paste to my CPU. And made sure everything was shipshape. I've managed to reset SteamVR to not cause the strange out-of focus problem, by reseting all the settings to default, but as soon as I enter DCS World the issue starts up again and I'm getting weird crosseye isses which seem to be related to IPD.

 

*Note*

 

This occured both in SteamVR and in DCS, but now only occurs in DCS. I will try to delete the options.lua file and and check if it solves the issue.

[Lurker]

Ok I managed to get the focus sorted, it appears it was simply due to space positioning. Num5 for the win

[speed-of-heat]

Num5 is the default button to center the view.. but if it works it works 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

BE, please note that there may be somebody out there, like me, who won't mind exchange some money for better VR.

[speed-of-heat]

22 minutes ago, VFGiPJP said:

BE, please note that there may be somebody out there, like me, who won't mind exchange some money for better VR.

I have to say as a VR Player, I have mixed feelings about this, but i tend to agree, if there was a "VR module" i'd be happy to buy into it, but i'm not sure it would make sense for ED, they would have to rethink their freemium business model... but maybe that is ok .

[DB 605]

From three flight sims i'm currently playing in VR (il2/fs2020/dcs) dcs is running best in my system, actually very nicely even on high settings. i7-11700K/3090/16gb (going to add some more memory later).

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

I have to say as a VR Player, I have mixed feelings about this, but i tend to agree, if there was a "VR module" i'd be happy to buy into it, but i'm not sure it would make sense for ED, they would have to rethink their freemium business model... but maybe that is ok .

I mean, take it as a "premium" package. Free players can still fly in VR, but well, just like flying in Econ class...

[speed-of-heat]

i understood the idea...   i dont think the anyone can play VR and these guys can play it better thing would work very well in practice as you end up with two many code paths in the test matrix...  i suspect if it were goign to happen it would be an all or nothing thing... and that likely makes it unlikely to happen... but

Edited September 4, 2021 by speed-of-heat

[Baldrick33]

5 hours ago, DB 605 said:

From three flight sims i'm currently playing in VR (il2/fs2020/dcs) dcs is running best in my system, actually very nicely even on high settings. i7-11700K/3090/16gb (going to add some more memory later).

I have an 8600K and 2080Ti. I have all three sims mentioned above and always find DCS the best package in VR. I have no reason for bias, I have invested in all three, DCS just works for me the best and is the most believable for my little mind. Of course I would love to be able to play any mission and fill the skies and ground with objects but picking and choosing the scenarios that do work in DCS is for me the most immersive experience currently available in VR right now. I still regard VR as a fairly immature technology and accept things as being a bit experimental now.

[Lurker]

Everyone also please note Bignewy's remark and comment in this thread. The core ED team are working on engine upgrades, namely Vulcan support and multithreading. It's a huge undertaking but it is coming. Don't expect miracles as initially there will be probably be many bugs and issues and the performance will be iffy at best but once they implement these changes we should have a scalable engine in DCS World (finally) and a lot of optimization should be possible. I think the future for VR in DCS is bright, we just need a little more patience. 

[TAW_Impalor]

On 9/4/2021 at 4:22 PM, speed-of-heat said:

i understood the idea...   i dont think the anyone can play VR and these guys can play it better thing would work very well in practice as you end up with two many code paths in the test matrix...  i suspect if it were goign to happen it would be an all or nothing thing... and that likely makes it unlikely to happen... but

 

Oh no, don't give them ideas to make current VR a paid experience while slowing it down for everyone else! )))

[AKA_Clutter]

On 9/4/2021 at 12:05 PM, Baldrick33 said:

I have an 8600K and 2080Ti. I have all three sims mentioned above and always find DCS the best package in VR. I have no reason for bias, I have invested in all three, DCS just works for me the best and is the most believable for my little mind. Of course I would love to be able to play any mission and fill the skies and ground with objects but picking and choosing the scenarios that do work in DCS is for me the most immersive experience currently available in VR right now. I still regard VR as a fairly immature technology and accept things as being a bit experimental now.

I too have all three (IL-2, MS FS 202, and DCS) and I find that IL-2 runs the best, followed by DCS, and then MS FS 2020.   

 

Any hoping that Vulcan and Multi-thread improves VR experience.

[Baldrick33]

5 minutes ago, AKA_Clutter said:

I too have all three (IL-2, MS FS 202, and DCS) and I find that IL-2 runs the best, followed by DCS, and then MS FS 2020.   

 

Any hoping that Vulcan and Multi-thread improves VR experience.

It can all get a bit subjective, I said package as it isn’t just about performance. The DCS graphics engine just works better for me in terms of visuals, plus the sensation of flying just somehow feels better in VR in DCS than anything else I have tried. The combination works best for me even if performance isn’t the very best. Conversely the latter sim mentioned just never performs well enough to get visuals to a level to compare in my experience.

[t-stoff]

I like toggling VR off or ON on MSFS2020 with the press of a key. Thats good as those menus are terrible to deal with VR.  
And it also runs smoothly. IL2 is the best performance wise. 
DCS used to be manageable, but now since the clouds it has been horrible. I even let the Raven One campaign last missions on hold. 
 40 fps and the cockpit camera somehow it drags and its terribly uncomfortable 
 

[Digitalvole]

I love DCS but it can feel like I’m in a relationship with a girl with VERY expensive tastes, who at this point I’m pretty sure doesn’t like me as much as I like her. But I’m smitten. 
 

Though things are as they are at the moment, for the first time I’m feeling confident that things are going to get better.  

[Baldrick33]

1 hour ago, Digitalvole said:

I love DCS but it can feel like I’m in a relationship with a girl with VERY expensive tastes, who at this point I’m pretty sure doesn’t like me as much as I like her. But I’m smitten.

The married guys on here probably think DCS is a steal!

[Digitalvole]

 

16 minutes ago, Baldrick33 said:

The married guys on here probably think DCS is a steal!

 

Oh I’m married with kids, hoping my wife doesn’t see this! (I think I’m probably safe )

 

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Like running a criminal gang, one'll need a secret book of accounts and a secret credit card in order to fly DCS, in case the person has spouse and kid(s)

[CptBligh]

Since this is a vent thread I will also I guess.  I've stopped playing DCS due to the poor VR performance, and once experiencing VR it's almost impossible to go back to monitor so that's out.  My system is antiquated now (5820k @ 4.4, 32GB RAM, GTX 1070, HP Reverb headset) but at one time it was adequate for DCS and I think that is the most frustrating part.  I would also be happy to upgrade, but seeing folks with brand new $3000 systems still struggle to have a decent online environment is not encouraging.

[Digitalvole]

35 minutes ago, CptBligh said:

 I would also be happy to upgrade, but seeing folks with brand new $3000 systems still struggle to have a decent online environment is not encouraging.

Ive recently done exactly that (a bit more in fact, actually quite a bit more because it was pounds Sterling) and I’m fine with it because now I can use my G2. But if I were you I’d wait till at least the end of the year to upgrade, just in case they do release the 4000 series RTX this year. I really hope they don’t for obvious reasons hehe.

 

I am hopeful for the future though, and I think it’s because of the Marianas map. I’ve not tried it as I’m sure it won’t be a pleasant experience on my measly 3090 and 5900x with 32gb of ram  

But if ED are creating maps with such levels of detail and things like the Apache, which looks like a lot of polygons and systems at play, not to mention a dynamic campaign, they know that they need a framework that will be able to support all there hard work in all its majesty. Only a 24 crt buffoon builds a magnificent palace in a swamp, and ED are clearly Not buffoons.

[Digitalvole]

I’ve had a couple of shandys so I’m posting again.

 

The difference in performance requirements vary greatly between the modern jets and the warbirds in my experience.
 

I must subconsciously be a gluten for punishment because almost as soon as I’d got things dialled in for the F 18 and 16 I got the jdam blues and decided to go back to learning the Spitfire having begun that endeavour at the start of last year but then COVID happened and the schools got closed and my free time was promptly despatched. 
 

A combination of the type of flying required and the nature of the maps and also probably the number of aircraft involved means what was an acceptable frame rate/time in a F 16 is a pretty wretched experience in a dogfight whilst flying a Spitfire

[joseridingclub]

I have built and setup hundreds of computers both professionally and for myself friends family. I have never dealt with a more frustrating combination of software hardware peripherals in 25 years in the industry. Its just not ready for the average user and if ED wants more users they are going to have to make it run better.

 

5800x 6800 reference

 

6900xt xtxh on the way  ED is responsible for millions in hardware sales

Edited September 8, 2021 by joseridingclub

[FoxTwo]

I think the developers made a costly decision (deferred rendering) that seemed like a great idea at the time that's really, really killing them in the long run.

 

Let's hope that with the shift to vulkan they make better decisions about how to implement the game engine going forward. I don't blame them for making the choice that they did at the time but ultimately I don't think it was the right one.