How hard is it to fly?

[Baltic Pirate]

48 minutes ago, kgillers3 said:

 

I’ve also never counted my button pushed so there’s that 

Never have either, but just gave it a try. A 747 from cold and dark, you could be 4 turning and burning with about 30 knobs, switches and push buttons.

[sirrah]

7 minutes ago, kgillers3 said:

Tell you what, I have a day flight today and I’ll try and keep track of how many buttons I push, I’ll be fs today so dunno how much that’ll help also full disclosure the different version and different model will require different buttons. But the overall process should be similar 

 

Hehe, better just focus on the job at hand instead of counting button presses I'd suggest. I don't want to be somewhat responsible for you messing up your flight because you were busy counting 

 

(not really important anyways )

 

I am though interested in how long it'll take you from stepping in the cockpit to taxiing out.

 

Have a good flight sir

(Said Sirrah kinda jealous )

 

[Sinclair_76]

1 hour ago, sirrah said:

Just read that piece again in his book, to see if I missed an indication of "a figure of speech". But none whatsoever. I don't think I'm allowed to exactly quote his words, but nothing indicates that he meant to exaggerate.

It can be read in chapter "handover" (can't say which page as I'm using the e-book version)

 

Could it be that the British (AgustaWestland) version of the D is more complicated to start than its original US brother?

Not much difference I've been told. Although for certain engine start is even easier than the US Army -64D. Just advance the power levers into idle or whatever the first position is called. The aircraft does the rest of the start.

[Hook47]

Sorry, I hadn't checked here for a couple days! I'll break down the start procedure from memory, but remember this isn't word for word per the checklist, nor all inclusive or "by the book" / 1520 friendly... This is how to start it as fast as possible... 

 

1. Battery switch to BATT or EXT POWER (depending on if you are using a GPU or not) 

 

2. APU button (press to start) and watch the UFD while it fires up. APU ON light should come on (on the button)

 

3. Rotor brake switch OFF

 

4. Engine 1 start switch FORWARD (to motor engine) 

 

5. Once the Ng temp starts coming up, engine 1 throttle forward to IDLE

 

6. Watch temp and UFD for a good start on 1. 

 

7.  Engine 2 start switch FORWARD (to motor engine)

 

8.  5. Once the Ng temp starts coming up, engine 2 throttle forward to IDLE

 

9.  Both engine levers to FLT position

 

10. APU OFF (by pressing APU button)

 

There ya go! A started AH-64 in 10 easy steps. Again, that's not manual friendly but it will get it running. 

 

Look's like we have a real steel AH-64 aviator here, so please set me straight if I missed anything major! I was just a crew chief and a Chinook FE, so I don't know as much as a current pilot! 

 

8 hours ago, kgillers3 said:

Yep. There are things we watch for but. IGN on, apu. Once I’m at start. Start button starts the start sequence ng on the rise power lever idle. Automated and ran by the engine computer. 
 

Generally. Coming up into the apu, you set your pages up, if someone is super eager to do things by the book you’ll do another test here, I’m not sure what’s being officially released so I’m not going in super detail. Once you’re done setting everything up, boresighting the ihadss etc etc, waiting for flir to cool down if you’re doing nvs. Then engine crank. 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Hook47

[Hook47]

33 minutes ago, kgillers3 said:

No rotor brake unless you’re doing rotor locked starts, remains in off pos. Wait for inu to align before starting typically but I don’t think it’ll matter for game(your compass will show at top of your hdu when complete) You’ll want to get your weapons pages set up  and boresight complete prior to starting just because of fuel but if you don’t care it’s up too you.  Again you won’t need all the pages on the mpds, it’s not hard and most peeps I think won’t be doing full run ups, nor would I expect my approximate button pushes to be required for this.  If someone wants to and that’s what they like that’s cool to but I know I won’t be doing accurate run ups.

 

 

Ah yes, I did leave out the INU alignment. I would be surprised if INU alignment wasn't modeled, DCS is very detailed! 

[Dograw75]

On 9/5/2021 at 8:48 AM, veenee said:

that's a no

not at all

I would disagree with you on that.  There was so much more nuance to controlling the Hip or Hind.  Especially taking off at higher elevations.  All I had to worry about with the Huey for the most part was monitoring temps and exhaust to prevent a fire.  With the Hip/Hind finding the balance of speed, ascent while maintaining proper rotor pitch (less than 12 if I remember)so you dont fall out of the sky was more challenging, plus it seemed VRS was way more of a danger in the Hip .  Huey was a piece of cake.  

Edited September 15, 2021 by Dograw75

[NWGJulian]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Hook47:

Sorry, I hadn't checked here for a couple days! I'll break down the start procedure from memory, but remember this isn't word for word per the checklist, nor all inclusive or "by the book" / 1520 friendly... This is how to start it as fast as possible... 

 

1. Battery switch to BATT or EXT POWER (depending on if you are using a GPU or not) 

 

2. APU button (press to start) and watch the UFD while it fires up. APU ON light should come on (on the button)

 

3. Rotor brake switch OFF

 

4. Engine 1 start switch FORWARD (to motor engine) 

 

5. Once the Ng temp starts coming up, engine 1 throttle forward to IDLE

 

6. Watch temp and UFD for a good start on 1. 

 

7.  Engine 2 start switch FORWARD (to motor engine)

 

8.  5. Once the Ng temp starts coming up, engine 2 throttle forward to IDLE

 

9.  Both engine levers to FLT position

 

10. APU OFF (by pressing APU button)

 

There ya go! A started AH-64 in 10 easy steps. Again, that's not manual friendly but it will get it running. 

 

Look's like we have a real steel AH-64 aviator here, so please set me straight if I missed anything major! I was just a crew chief and a Chinook FE, so I don't know as much as a current pilot! 

 

 

 

 

thats exactly how we did it in arma3 back then, so i guess i wasnt totally wrong there yesterday  obviously, being flyable with turning rotors doesnt mean the startup is finished

[Tank50us]

9 hours ago, Hook47 said:

 

Ah yes, I did leave out the INU alignment. I would be surprised if INU alignment wasn't modeled, DCS is very detailed! 

 

Well, to be fair, what you listed would be enough for an "OH CRAP!" startup, where your FOB is being shelled and it's get airborne now or die

[WobblyFlops]

17 hours ago, sirrah said:

Just read that piece again in his book, to see if I missed an indication of "a figure of speech". But none whatsoever. I don't think I'm allowed to exactly quote his words, but nothing indicates that he meant to exaggerate.

 

I don't want to throw shades on anyone but I'd take Ed Macy's book highly sceptically. He was the one who made people believe that Apache pilots can move their eyes independently like lizards. A self perpetuating myth that Casmo constantly has to address. Ed Macy also stated that the Apache has well over 1500 MPD pages. Now, I'm obviously not a real Apache pilot but I did check the manual and I don't understand how he got that number.

[sirrah]

28 minutes ago, WobblyFlops said:

I don't want to throw shades on anyone but I'd take Ed Macy's book highly sceptically. He was the one who made people believe that Apache pilots can move their eyes independently like lizards. A self perpetuating myth that Casmo constantly has to address. Ed Macy also stated that the Apache has well over 1500 MPD pages. Now, I'm obviously not a real Apache pilot but I did check the manual and I don't understand how he got that number.

 

hmm.. I don't like this.. I'm partially reading these books to sort of "learn" stuff... If I wanted fiction or action exaggeration, I would have bought something different...

 

Indeed Ed wrote that he at some point was able to read two books simultaneously, which I find very hard to believe.

 

 

But I think I'm going off topic here.. sorry

Edited September 15, 2021 by sirrah

[brianadkins]

How will the single player experience be on AH64?

 

[sirrah]

12 minutes ago, brianadkins said:

How will the single player experience be on AH64?

 

 

My educated guess would be: "Similarly to the Hind"

[veenee]

13 hours ago, Dograw75 said:

I would disagree with you on that.  There was so much more nuance to controlling the Hip or Hind.  Especially taking off at higher elevations.  All I had to worry about with the Huey for the most part was monitoring temps and exhaust to prevent a fire.  With the Hip/Hind finding the balance of speed, ascent while maintaining proper rotor pitch (less than 12 if I remember)so you dont fall out of the sky was more challenging, plus it seemed VRS was way more of a danger in the Hip .  Huey was a piece of cake.  

 

Hip is a joy to fly, easy and stable. The only thing you have to learn is how not to get into VRS.

 

Being very precise in a Huey is way more difficult than in a Mi-8, sling load operations are a breeze in Mi.

 

But - it usually is a very individual thing what one finds easy and another doesn't.

[Hook47]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:49 PM, kgillers3 said:

Real talk i'm super excited for the module.  I think SP and MP will be fun.  I'm curious if some of the things will make it in, but I'll just have to wait and see what is officially released.  To me it's the first true dual pilot cockpit, I think the gazelle has potential to be too, but just searching for tgts is only so fun. The hind is so so, I mean aside from atgms front seat just kinda sits there. can't really hunt. But that's my opinion. 

 

I am too, sir! I would agree, this is the first true dual pilot chopper (the Hind can be flown from either pit, but the pilot-operator controllers aren't designed for full time flying as far as I understand). The Gazelle is much simpler, and frankly that module is a real mess right now, particularly in regard to multicrew... 

 

I'd be honored to go up with you in a 64 once it is released! My virtual squadron is always looking for a few good men if you are interested in finding a good group of guys to fly cooperative missions with! 

[Dograw75]

12 hours ago, veenee said:

Hip is a joy to fly, easy and stable. The only thing you have to learn is how not to get into VRS.

 

Being very precise in a Huey is way more difficult than in a Mi-8, sling load operations are a breeze in Mi.

 

But - it usually is a very individual thing what one finds easy and another doesn't.

I agree it is a joy to fly, probably still my favorite rotary wing in the game, just took me longer to get the hang of.  Especially taking off at high elevations, it just wouldnt go, then generators fail, lose control and fall.  I realized I had to start slow coax it, get forward momentum first.  But as you said, every one has their own experience.  Still we agree its a great helo.

[veenee]

and would be even better with refreshed cockpit and multicrew

Edited September 17, 2021 by veenee

[cfrag]

On 9/15/2021 at 1:25 AM, kgillers3 said:

Yeah but in general doesn’t take much to get the blades turning 

 

Well, that's pretty much the central issue: if you know how you left the airframe, and no-one touched it in the mean-time, it can be left in a state that it is quick and safe to start-up. Likewise, if you know what you want to do with it (e.g. a ferry flight), you can get away with a reduced start-up, as getting the blades to turn is indeed not that difficult.

 

If you gearing up for a planned battlefield engagement with enough prep time, you can bet every pilot will go through the entire check list to make sure every knob, dial, needle, breaker, switch, zipper and latch is as it should be - lest they have a nasty surprise under fire.

[RG2021]

On 9/3/2021 at 1:23 PM, Iron Sights said:

Learn to fly the Hind and it makes the Huey feel easy.

Really?! I never flew the Huey but I flew the Hind and thought it felt super easy.

 

I always heard that the Huey was one of if not the hardest module to control.

 

That must mean...I AM THE GREATEST!

[vvm13]

Please note that Macy wrote not one, but two books. One is called Apache, the other is called Hellfire. In particular, the second describes the battle on June 4, 2006. Chronology given (from Macy's point of view).

In particular, due to the negligence of the command, for some time the troops were left without Apache cover.

Macy with comrades arrived at the airfield and boarded in Apache 13:08.

They were able to take off only at 13:33.

It's not 30 minutes, but pretty close. They were in a great hurry.

Edited September 18, 2021 by vvm13

[Hammer1-1]

Aint nothing hard to master in the huey. Took me 6 months from start to finish to know that helicopter inside out; hardest thing to do in it is sling loading.

[Rogue Trooper]

Is it possible to switch off the AH-64s AP channels quickly?

 

Or are they just woven into the fabrique of the airframe?

[Rogue Trooper]

If you're talking about heading hold / turn coordination the only way you can turn that off is by turning off force trim or holding the force trim release.

 

Switching off force trim is not what I would want, Press and holding the force trim does sound doable I guess.... it is the basic trim button on the stick?

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[Rogue Trooper]

This a cyclic located hat that you are talking about?

Left Attitude.

Force trim release up

right is Altitude hold

down is hold mode disengage

 

I have not yet looked at the Apache stick as I am busy with the Hind.

But have I got that right?

A hat on the cyclic for each AP mode?... I like the sound of that..... sounds like what I did with the KA-50 on my warthog!

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Rogue Trooper

[MRTX]

Can you use altitude hold in conjunction with attitude hold? (to hold the bank angle)

[Guest]

On 9/3/2021 at 7:05 PM, Gunfreak said:

Only chopper from DCS I have any experience with is the Huey.  And only like an hour. I can fly it OK, but landing and taking off are high risk stuff,  with landings being 50/50 hard and explodey. 

 

But from what I've read the Huey is the hardest of the current choppers to fly in DCS?

How hard will it be to fly the Apache?

Huey and the Gazelle are easy to fly.