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Questions about the next major update and the ea situation.


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And Cobra,.....for that tentative big mid November update, would you please be so kind and give this long standing issue about the previously seperate Viggen Red Flag DLC campaign, now completely redundant as it has become part of the actual module another push?

 

Reported here:

 

On every DCS launch i get this red ribbon reminder to install this dlc campaign...which is obviously already part of the actual module.

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11 hours ago, sc_neo said:

Apparently the separate DLC Red Flag campaign has finally been removed from DCS....much appreciated, thanks!

 

Yeah but now those who bought it are getting pop ups at startup asking for a valid serial number for the campaign... d'oh!

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On 9/14/2021 at 9:15 PM, Bagpipe said:

Yeah but now those who bought it are getting pop ups at startup asking for a valid serial number for the campaign... d'oh!

I simple removed this module using the module manager, no pop-up appeared again.

 

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54 minutes ago, TOViper said:

I simple removed this module using the module manager, no pop-up appeared again.

 

I suppose that's one way of getting rid of the pop-ups LOL 🤦‍♂️

 

I still want my credit note though! All $5 worth


Edited by Bagpipe
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8 hours ago, Bagpipe said:

I suppose that's one way of getting rid of the pop-ups LOL 🤦‍♂️

 

The next open beta update will remove it for you, and you won't see this popup ever again. Update is planed for tomorrow.


Edited by Flappie
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Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever.

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55 minutes ago, TLTeo said:

They literally stated in this very thread that major stuff will come in November. Hold your pitchforks until then at least.

I know what Cobra wrote , I followed this thread closely , I’m not even talking about major texture or sound overhauls or features, it would be just simply be awesome if the Viggen at least got a decent amount of fixing of the many existing bugs in each update, similar to the Tomcat.

Look at change log, the ratio is like 5:1 if you eyeball it and this seems to me to be the standard for many of the updates in the past months, not to say year.

 

Anyway I’m looking what the november update brings but excuse me if I remain pessimistic about this, especially with the big Tomcat / Forrestal update happening just one month before with the potential for lots of additional fixing afterwards..


Edited by Snappy
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Sure, all I'm saying is that if they really are pushing major stuff to November, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If that major push is seriously delayed and/or the Tomcat clearly keeps receiving more attention I will be just as annoyed as you all though.

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21 hours ago, TLTeo said:

Sure, all I'm saying is that if they really are pushing major stuff to November, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If that major push is seriously delayed and/or the Tomcat clearly keeps receiving more attention I will be just as annoyed as you all though.

 

Same

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On 9/17/2021 at 6:52 PM, Snappy said:

 

I know what Cobra wrote , I followed this thread closely , I’m not even talking about major texture or sound overhauls or features, it would be just simply be awesome if the Viggen at least got a decent amount of fixing of the many existing bugs in each update, similar to the Tomcat.

Look at change log, the ratio is like 5:1 if you eyeball it and this seems to me to be the standard for many of the updates in the past months, not to say year.

 

Anyway I’m looking what the november update brings but excuse me if I remain pessimistic about this, especially with the big Tomcat / Forrestal update happening just one month before with the potential for lots of additional fixing afterwards..

 

We don't know how much time and effort each item on a changelog takes the team. The tomcat, i should imagine, has a larger number of devs working on it too so there's that but I am fairly certain if you were to get a look in to HB's financial summary you would see why lol.

 

Give it time, we've got used to waiting after all, what's another month or two

 

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I would just like to add a little something: we're currently working on restructuring how we approach coding in our modules in general (as well as restructuring and expanding the entire team), so that in the future modules are not coded one module ABCD and the next module DCBA and the third module CBDA, but rather all receive the same structure, the same fundament, the same order, etc etc... This will long term help to a) refit older modules with newer technologies easier, b) maintain them easier and c) develop new modules faster. Ultimately also the Viggen will benefit from it. This is a tremendous effort in parts, and unfortunately nothing that is being reflected in the changelogs. How quickly and how much in the end it will benefit, is hard to say at this point, but I sure hope lots and rather sooner than late.

The harsh reality is that we have limited ressources, so newer modules get more principal attention than older modules. And making and selling a new module does not always equal the ability of growth, often it just means: we can keep going. This is something Cobra has been working hard towards to restructure so that in the future older modules will be less affected by this. It is not an easy task at all, there are just limits, mainly in what time and ressources allow us to do. This doesn't mean that we willfully neglect you guys, your reports and your concerns. To the contrary. It makes no difference to us what module's customer you are for us, we value all customers equally. But we have to find ways and means to address such problems, long term rather than short term. The key word of course being sustainability. Please be so kind and keep that in mind. We do this precisely, because we do not want to let you standing at the side of the road, while we steam ahead. 

With forum interaction alone, I can tell you: sometimes it is too much for me to cope with the Viggen forums, the Tomcat forums, facebook, etc, despite me having promised that I will be more active here. But I end up skimming over the threads at the end of the day to be completely honest, after already having taken this and that much time on the Tomcat forum, or elsewhere, etc. Hence I would kindly like to ask you something: please ping/ notify me, if there is something you want to bring to our attention rather sooner than later. This would help me a lot and would let me re-prioritize quicker and give you more of the attention you all deserve.

Thank you all for being so tremendously patient with us. We hope we can ultimately live up to your expectations, it is of utmost importance to the entire team! 

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1 hour ago, IronMike said:

The harsh reality is that we have limited ressources, so newer modules get more principal attention than older modules.

 

This is totally understandable at some point, but if a module is still in Early Access and full of bugs, then this point has not come imho. If ressources are not enough to get a module beyond this point in development, then there is something really going wrong.

 

You guys at HB are known for going additional steps to bring features into DCS that other devs and sometimes even ED wouldn't do (e.g. the roadbase feature for the Viggen), but sometimes I have to think if this isn't too much for such small dev teams, especiall if those features are supposed to be supported in the long run. Maybe it would be better to focus on core features and making sure the aircraft is working correctly in its basic functionality before coming up with such fancy additional features. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate such features, but not at the expense of core functionality and if ressources are thin, then it might not be a good approach adding such extra features without having a solid core module. Just my 2 Cents.


Edited by QuiGon
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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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20 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

 

This is totally understandable at some point, but if a module is still in Early Access and full of bugs, then this point has not come imho. If ressources are not enough to get a module beyond this point in development, then there is something really going wrong.

 

You guys at ED are known for going additional steps to bring features into DCS that other devs and sometimes even ED wouldn't do (e.g. the roadbase feature for the Viggen), but sometimes I have to think if this isn't too much for such small dev teams, especiall if those features are supposed to be supported in the long run. Maybe it would be better to focus on core features and making sure the aircraft is working correctly in its basic functionality before coming up with such fancy additional features. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate such features, but not at the expense of core functionality and if ressources are thin, then it might not be a good approach adding such extra features without having a solid core module. Just my 2 Cents.

 

Guys at ED or guys at HB?

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3 minutes ago, Gierasimov said:

Guys at ED or guys at HB?

 

I meant to say HB of course :doh:

I corrected it, thanks!


Edited by QuiGon
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Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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4 hours ago, IronMike said:

I would just like to add a little something: we're currently working on restructuring how we approach coding in our modules in general (as well as restructuring and expanding the entire team), so that in the future modules are not coded one module ABCD and the next module DCBA and the third module CBDA, but rather all receive the same structure, the same fundament, the same order, etc etc... This will long term help to a) refit older modules with newer technologies easier, b) maintain them easier and c) develop new modules faster. Ultimately also the Viggen will benefit from it. This is a tremendous effort in parts, and unfortunately nothing that is being reflected in the changelogs. How quickly and how much in the end it will benefit, is hard to say at this point, but I sure hope lots and rather sooner than late.

The harsh reality is that we have limited ressources, so newer modules get more principal attention than older modules. And making and selling a new module does not always equal the ability of growth, often it just means: we can keep going. This is something Cobra has been working hard towards to restructure so that in the future older modules will be less affected by this. It is not an easy task at all, there are just limits, mainly in what time and ressources allow us to do. This doesn't mean that we willfully neglect you guys, your reports and your concerns. To the contrary. It makes no difference to us what module's customer you are for us, we value all customers equally. But we have to find ways and means to address such problems, long term rather than short term. The key word of course being sustainability. Please be so kind and keep that in mind. We do this precisely, because we do not want to let you standing at the side of the road, while we steam ahead. 

With forum interaction alone, I can tell you: sometimes it is too much for me to cope with the Viggen forums, the Tomcat forums, facebook, etc, despite me having promised that I will be more active here. But I end up skimming over the threads at the end of the day to be completely honest, after already having taken this and that much time on the Tomcat forum, or elsewhere, etc. Hence I would kindly like to ask you something: please ping/ notify me, if there is something you want to bring to our attention rather sooner than later. This would help me a lot and would let me re-prioritize quicker and give you more of the attention you all deserve.

Thank you all for being so tremendously patient with us. We hope we can ultimately live up to your expectations, it is of utmost importance to the entire team! 


well in part you have my understanding for the resource realities , but at the same time I find this very disappointing, especially the part that heatblur is basically really unable to keep even a basic developer presence in the Viggen forums.

And honestly, while I appreciate you trying to keep at least a low level track of things, PMing you is in my opinion a less than ideal solution, especially since I remember from a few threads related to this in the tomcat forums, that you can’t keep up with your inbox and stuff gets lost in there as well.( No criticism meant here to you in this regard, I can only imagine the number of PMs you get each day)


I definitely agree with QuiGon , as of now I really  don’t see the Viggen at a point where it entered a sort of maintenance mode and can get less attention as an older module and constantly draw the short straw in regards to updates.

In fact on the contrary , the near constant lack of decent-sized bug fixing has now led to the point where many bugs, some of them have piled up, in the Viggen , plus tons of unanswered reports in the forums. So instead of basic occasional maintenance it actually needs a lot of concentrated bug fixing.

 


regards,

 

Snappy

 


 


Edited by Snappy
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Hello Mike!

 

Thanks for your longer answer!

 

Regarding the first section of your writing: I agree what you and your team are working on, making the modules more internally compatible. That's what I would try as well.

 

In the meantime, you should have gotten to know us a bit. We ARE patient, cause we all know about the work necessary for creating such a wonderful piece of software.

But at least you have to talk to us!

What about just informing us a little bit from time to time (in a pro-active way) about what's happening in the background on the Viggen for us "long time Viggen drivers" ... 😉

As the "salt in the soup", this group of enthusiasts on the other side of the production line helped you so much in making this module much more interesting than many other modules around. By simply looking back to 2017 when the Viggen arrived ... you led the way, BY FAR!

Now, back in nearly 2022 (!) it's time for your part, by getting rid of ... let me phrase in that way "a few more bugs" :biggrin: , and bringing the beast to a state which would deserve the title "out of early-access". Don't let this happen: "Much good work is lost due to lack of a little more".

 

Please don't overstress our patience and don't play with the long time trust we - still - have in you.

We - the biggest Viggen flight sim community - don't deserve that treatment.

We rant from time to time, yes, but we were helping many years in making this thing so valuable.

 

Regarding the second section I don't have any great comments.

 

Regarding the third section:

I was calling for help sometimes via the forum by using the "@ Username", but to speak in a positive way ... not always I got response :closedeyes:

 

Viggen is love.

Period.

 

P.S.: Let's to a little test ... @IronMike : I have forgotton to ask: What can we do to help you to help us to help you?


Edited by TOViper
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Just to clarify something, I did not mean pming, but pinging, like this @Snappy - this simply highlights a thread for me, so I give it some extra attention. It is a very quick way to let me know: please take a look at this. (Given I might miss a ping here and there, especially if taking a few days off the forums, as I get so many notifications, for every like reaction, thanks reaction, reply, quote, ping, etc... and sometimes a ping that might have been important simply drowns in all of that.) That said, not trying to make up excuses.

You have to understand please guys, that the number of threads with lower priorities and high amount of replies, etc is an immensly time consuming task to read through, so we have to resort to glancing over them. Already for me, who has a particular focus on it, let alone for our coding developers. Else everything else work wise would start to suffer, too. That is by all means not a complaint, I would hate for any of you to become less active, less invested and less communicative. Please never change!

And we absolutely appreciate just how patient, how understanding and how supportive you guys are. It is incredibly humbling, and at no point it is something that puts our minds at rest à la "oh they are patient anyway", to the contrary: it makes us feel double, triple as terrible when we have to make you wait yet again. Trust me when I say that we are working really hard in the background to improve all our processes, procedures and structure to improve our general disposability for all modules around, including the Viggen. We always want to give you more, not less. And I often said it: us not replying does not equal us not reading, or us not noticing. Eventually we read and note everything.

All your points are taken, guys, and all the "salt" and "ranting" in this thread is 100% warranted, and I would like to apologize deeply to all of you that you feel currently neglected. Please know: work is being done in the background to address all of these issues long term. And I also agree, we should communicate that better and more clearly and more often (!), hence I also added my post above to the conversation, so you get a bit more insight into our current dealings. We will try to do better in this regard - and we will deliver on our promises eventually. We would never allow ourselves to let you all down in the end. I also agree that without you, our great community, any of our products could never have been what they are today. I would like to thank you all from the bottom of my heart for that, you guys are simply amazing, and you will always have my deepest love and respect for that.

The one promise that I can make, that we can make: we love the Viggen just as much as we love the Tomcat or any module to come, and we will never let it come to a point where we simply give up on it, or let it rot in the boneyard, so to speak, even if atm you all have a bit the impression of it being like that. We do listen, and everything you said here strikes us at the core and pushes us even more to do better. You all deserve our best, and not our minimum.

Thank you all for being the way you are, for not only supporting us with your patience, but also for holding us to our own higher standards and putting the finger exactly where it hurts most. It keeps us on our toes, and I hope that will never change, that you guys will never change. All our journey so far would not have been the same without you guys. Thank you so much for that! ❤️ 


Edited by IronMike
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5 hours ago, TOViper said:

P.S.: Let's to a little test ... @IronMike : I have forgotton to ask: What can we do to help you to help us to help you?

 

 

works 😄 😉

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Heatblur Simulations

 

Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage.

 

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7 hours ago, IronMike said:

I get so many notifications, for every like reaction, thanks reaction, reply, quote, ping, etc...

Sounds like you should turn off notifications for reactions.  Or we all agree to stop liking and thanking your posts. 😁

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38 minutes ago, Machalot said:

Sounds like you should turn off notifications for reactions.  Or we all agree to stop liking and thanking your posts. 😁

 

well, it helps me keep track a bit what folks appreciate and what not, etc... although tbh, while nice to get likes, it is the least thing we're after hehe 🙂

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Heatblur Simulations

 

Please feel free to contact me anytime, either via PM here, on the forums, or via email through the contact form on our homepage.

 

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