Is this Module in Beta Testing?

[Xillix]

I'm just testing this module to see if I'd like to purchase but I don't see how anyone can enjoy it. The way it feels and the bugs, and Jester, why?

 

It flies like bucket of bolts made of lead. The RIO Tutorial is missing the console buttons you have to press during the Tutorial? 

 

This is not a finished product, and puts shame to the F14, makes me cry inside a little as this is my ultimate favourite fighter aircraft IRL. 

 

Is anyone else having the same issues or shares the same views?

[Lt_Jaeger]

Nope 

 

This is one of (for me - the) best modules.

 

Yes, there are a couple of bugs, like with every module, but I love that thing. 

 

If you want a smooth ride, choose one of the electric jets. For me, I get bored in these things and missing something if it is not shake, rattle and rolling. 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Lt_Jaeger

[razo+r]

Here you go:

 

[dorianR666]

54 minutes ago, Xillix said:

This is not a finished product

Correct, it is not finished.

As razo+r posted above, this module is still in development.

[Xillix]

Ok fair enough you make a good point, the shake/rattle can be interesting if it was accurate. It feels the F14 gets a little shaky too early, and its too sluggish with the throttle/taxi when standing still. The physics don't make sense, and feel wrong, counterintuitive.  It feels almost as if you are constantly struggling when flying this aircraft instead of enjoying it. For example, like reading the lettering (I love the scratched up, worn look, but not at the expense of eye strain.) I've never had to max zoom on and still have trouble reading the text. Poorly executed, great idea.

19 hours ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

For me, I get bored in these things and missing something if it is not shake, rattle and rolling. 

 

 

 

 

Sure it's not finished, everything in DCS is EARLY ACCESS, but compared to other EARLY ACCESS modules, it's a nightmare. How can Heatblur Simulations (HS) create a RIO cockpit unfinished, and sell this as a duo product (added in the cost too, the most expensive module) and release it half-assed? 

 

19 hours ago, razo+r said:

Here you go:

 

 

Maybe I'm just confused and disappointed this module would be better than expected and maybe those who love it, are just die hard F14 masochistic pilots. I would love to see these bugs gone and the module improved! or ED/Other to release their version of the F14.

[Lt_Jaeger]

What is unfinished? I'm no expert but I guess 95%are done. There is some cosmetics, some basics like the correct engine instrument, functionalities like obd / test modes and other little stuff missing, but for me nothing game breaking. Jester can be a pain in the butt, but most of the times are the (real life) limitations of the 60s system which make one think he screwed up. Flight model overhaul is in the works, but the problem, as I understand, is mostly about drag in different alts which does slow her down more then in real life and some tweaking at the edge of the envelope. 

 

She isoa little sticky on the ground, reminiscent to the fact that the planes - not only the Tomcat - were sliding off the carrier. 

 

You are expecting something complete different then the early - analog - birds are able to deliver. Look around in the forum, there are real life Tomcat driver which tell you the thing is (as close as it gets in a simulator) spot on (-minus the above mentioned hick ups in the FM). These analog planes want to be controlled every second, which is tiring, granted. But ask the real guys, that's the way it is. Try warbirds and then come back and you will think the Tomcat is on rails. After a pretty steep learning curve the F-14 is fun, except for the fact that she tries to kill you as soon as you don't pay attention and being too long into the cockpit without paying attention to the instruments. Did I tell you that it is fun? It is... 

 

The weathered look, OK, starting with the bird it's a pain in the butt, I admit that. I had me a mod installed with clear labels, but being back to the original now since there is no need any more for reading them. 

 

For the backseat, what is actually missing, besides all the obd stuff? Everything that is needed for employing the Tomcat is there and functional, at least in a state where it doesn't have to hide behind other products, in many cases exceeding them. Missing / non functional stuff doesn't work in dcs anyway beyond a very basic level e.g the IFF / ECCM settings etc. 

 

Look around on YouTube, find a guy /gal you trust, and let them explain that module to you and how to fly it. Yes it's not easy to fly if you get her close to the edge of the envelope and for sure it's more work as in the electric jets, but that's the way it was and that's why many love the old, analog planes. 

[Grundar]

In terms, of the bucket of bolts made of lead, yeah it sure can be.  It takes a fair amount of work, and study, when you first start to get the F-14 to fly how you want it to.  Compared to succeeding aircraft with a FBW system, it is certainly a big difference in how "easy' it is to fly, let alone how to get high performance out of it.    It is challenging to start with, not just with the flying only aspect but the systems management and all the nuances of the aircraft.  Believe me, there were many times where the only ordinance on my F-14 seemed to be F-Bombs, but once you "got" some aspect of the aircraft, other aspects would start to slide in to place as well and the puzzle made more sense.  Now it isn't some sort of abstract aircraft that is impossible to fly, far from it, but in comparison to most other modules it does make you work to fly it. This is my favourite module by a massive margin, the Viggen isn't far off either for similar reasons.  

[Xillix]

1 hour ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

What is unfinished? I'm no expert but I guess 95%are done. There is some cosmetics, some basics like the correct engine instrument, functionalities like obd / test modes and other little stuff missing, but for me nothing game breaking. Jester can be a pain in the butt, but most of the times are the (real life) limitations of the 60s system which make one think he screwed up. Flight model overhaul is in the works, but the problem, as I understand, is mostly about drag in different alts which does slow her down more then in real life and some tweaking at the edge of the envelope. 

 

She isoa little sticky on the ground, reminiscent to the fact that the planes - not only the Tomcat - were sliding off the carrier. 

 

You are expecting something complete different then the early - analog - birds are able to deliver. Look around in the forum, there are real life Tomcat driver which tell you the thing is (as close as it gets in a simulator) spot on (-minus the above mentioned hick ups in the FM). These analog planes want to be controlled every second, which is tiring, granted. But ask the real guys, that's the way it is. Try warbirds and then come back and you will think the Tomcat is on rails. After a pretty steep learning curve the F-14 is fun, except for the fact that she tries to kill you as soon as you don't pay attention and being too long into the cockpit without paying attention to the instruments. Did I tell you that it is fun? It is... 

 

The weathered look, OK, starting with the bird it's a pain in the butt, I admit that. I had me a mod installed with clear labels, but being back to the original now since there is no need any more for reading them. 

 

For the backseat, what is actually missing, besides all the obd stuff? Everything that is needed for employing the Tomcat is there and functional, at least in a state where it doesn't have to hide behind other products, in many cases exceeding them. Missing / non functional stuff doesn't work in dcs anyway beyond a very basic level e.g the IFF / ECCM settings etc. 

 

Look around on YouTube, find a guy /gal you trust, and let them explain that module to you and how to fly it. Yes it's not easy to fly if you get her close to the edge of the envelope and for sure it's more work as in the electric jets, but that's the way it was and that's why many love the old, analog planes. 

 

Funny enough I found some videos on the forums, and a real F14 pilot was going through all the controls which really helped me out. I can see the aesthetics being appealing after giving it another shot, with the sound, though still not a 'fan' of the Jester system. I can see this plane being a bit of a learning curve. I'm crashing more from lack of information on the hud and the need to look around, she does not trim well.  I constantly bounce between MSFS2020 and DCS. I know how a C152 feels and a B787. So I'm glad there is a remodel coming, though I like the authentic feel, just a more accurate one would be nice.

 

Finally, I figured out how to go into the the RIO cockpit , and it is not like in the Training Mission where the buttons were missing. I was impressed actually by the level of detail; must be a bug or something, as I experience random bugs in the F14. The esthetics inside also reflect its state and I realize some of the 'roughness' it has gives it character. If I wanted to fly a smooth fighter I have plenty to choose from, so I see the allure of the F14's 60s feel analog feel. 

 

Thank you for your advice, it's been really helpful! I'm gonna get some of these mods going, cheers!

Edited September 5, 2021 by Xillix
Added Thank you!

[Xillix]

1 minute ago, Grundar said:

In terms, of the bucket of bolts made of lead, yeah it sure can be.  It takes a fair amount of work, and study, when you first start to get the F-14 to fly how you want it to.  Compared to succeeding aircraft with a FBW system, it is certainly a big difference in how "easy' it is to fly, let alone how to get high performance out of it.    It is challenging to start with, not just with the flying only aspect but the systems management and all the nuances of the aircraft.  Believe me, there were many times where the only ordinance on my F-14 seemed to be F-Bombs, but once you "got" some aspect of the aircraft, other aspects would start to slide in to place as well and the puzzle made more sense.  Now it isn't some sort of abstract aircraft that is impossible to fly, far from it, but in comparison to most other modules it does make you work to fly it. This is my favourite module by a massive margin, the Viggen isn't far off either for similar reasons.  

 

I think you hit the nail on the head as it is a huge challenge to start with. I was expecting something digital, but I can see myself really appreciating the analog feel it has. I don't mind a challenge and I can see there is a lot of information on how to fly it. Thank you for your honest reply. I will have to try the Viggen one day. Cheers! I mainly wanted to see what made this module great and the community here has been really helpful. 

[Lt_Jaeger]

35 minutes ago, Xillix said:

though still not a 'fan' of the Jester system

Might want to check out VAICOM pro with the AIRIO extension. I got it right away with the Tomcat module and never saw the jester wheel. Granted, another steep learning curve to learn the phraseology, but you are able to put your own. It feels just more natural talking to jester, than to go thru the jester wheel. 

 

Might stop here for a second, and zip thrue the video for some examples of talking to jester

 

https://youtu.be/serAX-rrFgI

 

 

Button missing in the Rio pit is normally a sign of mission not started. Might be some other bug as well, but never had it. Hope you did put dcs on a ssd, which should help immensely, not only with the F-14 but with the game in general. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Lt_Jaeger

[dorianR666]

1 hour ago, Xillix said:

where the buttons were missing

what do you mean?

as far as i know, there are no missing buttons in either cockpit.

Edited September 5, 2021 by dorianR666

[Lt_Jaeger]

Happens if you spawn in the back office and the mission is not loaded or started yet. 

You just see the panels and the oxygen mask in front of your face 

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Lt_Jaeger:

Might want to check out VAICOM pro with the AIRIO extension. I got it right away with the Tomcat module and never saw the jester wheel. Granted, another steep learning curve to learn the phraseology, but you are able to put your own. It feels just more natural talking to jester, than to go thru the jester wheel. 

 

Might stop here for a second, and zip thrue the video for some examples of talking to jester

 

https://youtu.be/serAX-rrFgI

 

 

Button missing in the Rio pit is normally a sign of mission not started. Might be some other bug as well, but never had it. Hope you did put dcs on a ssd, which should help immensely, not only with the F-14 but with the game in general. 

 

Speaking of AIRIO, I saw in one of your "Fear the Bones" videos that you have a voice command for aspect (nose/tail/both). Is that a custom command you've made yourself, or did I miss an update?

[Lt_Jaeger]

21 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

Speaking of AIRIO, I saw in one of your "Fear the Bones" videos that you have a voice command for aspect (nose/tail/both). Is that a custom command you've made yourself, or did I miss an update?

That is custom made. I have an additional profile daisy chained (it is somewhere around here, something like Jester complementary) which I amended with the commands and some jester feedback from the hb sound files. 

[Jayhawk1971]

Ah ok, thanks. Not sure if I want to dive too deep into VAICOM (had enough "fun" during the past week to get VR set up so that I don't experience a slideshow).  Hopefully they'll add commands for the new functions in the next update (and also fix target size command). 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Jayhawk1971

[Lt_Jaeger]

Might give me a pm and I send you the profile, after I figure out again how to implement it

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Lt_Jaeger

[draconus]

On 9/4/2021 at 12:16 PM, Xillix said:

This is not a finished product, and puts shame to the F14, makes me cry inside a little as this is my ultimate favourite fighter aircraft IRL.

You just saw some images and movies but really had no idea what it's like. It is the best representation of the Tomcat you'll find for the PC.

Some changes are coming for the FM but nothing major you'd notice. Get to know her, practice and you'll tame the beast.

Ground handling/friction is gonna be reworked in the future. RIO cockpit not loading fully is just a training mission bug connected with user not following the guide.

If you ask around DCS community you will know it's one of the best modules but surely, you'll find people that are not happy with it. Can't please everyone. If you don't like Jester get yourself better RIO. It is just an option for you to fly the 2 crew jet. You wouldn't even start without him. I bet you two will get along soon though

 

[captain_dalan]

On 9/4/2021 at 12:16 PM, Xillix said:

 

 

Is anyone else having the same issues or shares the same views?

No

[Eagle7907]

I’d say the biggest hurdle to learn with the F14 is just the variable geometry wing. How it moves automatically and like said many time without the careful eye can cause lots of extra stress and frustration. Yes it’s no FBW jet and adding with the wings moving it’s just more items to manage.

Me personally, I love this module and fly it more than the others. I do dabble with them all (F-16, 18, 15, AV8, A10, M2000C) but the F-14 is my current favorite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[LanceCriminal86]

On 9/4/2021 at 5:16 AM, Xillix said:

 

 

This is not a finished product, and puts shame to the F14, makes me cry inside a little as this is my ultimate favourite fighter aircraft IRL. 

 

 

 

... posts while having the F/A-18 as his avatar.

[Xillix]

20 hours ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

VAICOM pro with the AIRIO extension

I'll check it out, it looks very interesting with the voice command, cheers. I'd love a copy of that profile too btw.

 

20 hours ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Button missing in the Rio pit is normally a sign of mission not started. Might be some other bug as well, but never had it. Hope you did put dcs on a ssd, which should help immensely, not only with the F-14 but with the game in general. 

It only happens in the F14 RIO training mission, and I'm on a SSD, can't imagine gaming without one. 

 

19 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

what do you mean?

as far as i know, there are no missing buttons in either cockpit.

 

the hud basically doesn't load at all, maybe a few minor things, and lots of clipping in the RIO hud

7 hours ago, draconus said:

Get to know her, practice and you'll tame the beast.

 

She's starting to grow on me. 

 

7 hours ago, draconus said:

RIO cockpit not loading fully is just a training mission bug connected with user not following the guide.

 

Happens right in the beginning of the RIO training mission, there is nothing to follow prior? You can actually click on the highlighted invisible buttons and activate them. So its got to be a loading issue. There are better guides out there on RIO so I'm not worried since the RIO cockpit shows up fine any other time.

 

6 hours ago, Eagle7907 said:

I love this module and fly it more than the others. I do dabble with them all (F-16, 18, 15, AV8, A10, M2000C) but the F-14 is my current favorite.

 

You don't seem to be the only one. The audience votes F-14, therefore it must be good! I just don't know it yet... I appreciate all the input and constructive advice. This community is really something special! So far the F-16 and F-18 are my favourite DCS fighters, still haven't tried the M2000C but it's on the list!

 

[Lt_Jaeger]

36 minutes ago, Xillix said:

21 hours ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

VAICOM pro with the AIRIO extension

I'll check it out, it looks very interesting with the voice command, cheers. I'd love a copy of that profile too btw.

 

VoiceAttack and VAICOM Pro and the ARIO extension are payware, as well as the VoiceAttack Program is (You need VA for VAICOM to work).

I can recommend the full package:  https://www.vaicompro.com/get-license.html

But be aware....another steep learning curve and not without bugs and the chance of frustration. But as soon as it works...priceless.  Is like everything in DCS, you have to put in a lot of sweat and tears to make it work

 

If you got all that, I can get you the extension, for sure. The profile provides a couple of nice to have commands.

 

43 minutes ago, Xillix said:

20 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

what do you mean?

as far as i know, there are no missing buttons in either cockpit.

 

the hud basically doesn't load at all, maybe a few minor things, and lots of clipping in the RIO hud

 

hmmm, there is no such thing as a RIO HUD. Most probably it is a loading error. Usually something like that happens if you spawn in the RIO Pit with the mission paused. The clipping you see is the RIO Helmet and oxygen Mask in front of your face (so your seating position is OK    ) but actually I don't know how this can be happening in a training mission. Maybe you have to run a repair for missing files 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Xillix said:

8 hours ago, draconus said:

RIO cockpit not loading fully is just a training mission bug connected with user not following the guide.

 

Happens right in the beginning of the RIO training mission, there is nothing to follow prior? You can actually click on the highlighted invisible buttons and activate them. So its got to be a loading issue. There are better guides out there on RIO so I'm not worried since the RIO cockpit shows up fine any other time.

 

 

If you are talking for the RIO Cold Start Training Mission:  You are supposed to sit in the front office, for as long as the two Tomcats are taking off and the instructor Dude starting to talk and telling you to get ground power and external air supply

[Xillix]

20 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

I can recommend the full package

 

I was looking at that one. Not too bad, but Voice Attack is also subscription. Something for the Christmas list for sure. 

22 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

hmmm, there is no such thing as a RIO HUD

 

RIO cockpit*

 

23 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

Maybe you have to run a repair for missing files 

 

I was thinking of this myself and just found the DCS World repair feature. Hopefully this will help!

 

24 minutes ago, Lt_Jaeger said:

RIO Cold Start Training Mission

 

I will have to re-run the mission after running the repair and see it if fixed it. I don't remember ever loading into the office so there lies the issue. 

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, Xillix said:

I will have to re-run the mission after running the repair and see it if fixed it.

Please tell what training mission you run and we'll check.

[Xillix]

34 minutes ago, draconus said:

Please tell what training mission you run and we'll check.

 

Thank you for your help. 

 

I ran the repair successfully and the issues still exist.

 

The mission is the F-14 RIO Cold Start Training Mission, after entering the mission, Jester goes through a set of automated actions and I let him do his thing and wait for instructions. After a short while when the F14s take off, and an instructor asks you to ask the ground chief to turn on ground power and air supply then press spacebar. I do that after I get confirmation the ground power and air supply is on and then it changes my view to Jester, with his body there, and none of the Hud buttons showing, and pieces of the cockpit are missing, like knobs or switches as seen in the screen shots.

 

I realized if I manually press 2, and switch to the RIO cockpit after I connect the ground and air, the bug does not occur. The instructor does tell you to switch to the RIO cockpit, but if a player does not know how (and I didn't at that point), there should be an error, or I would program an autoswitch and have the game press 2 for you when you hit spacebar to avoid the bug.  Pressing spacebar before switching to the RIO cockpit bugs out as you see below. 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Xillix
Bug notes