The bag...

[fargo007]

The bag is a series of opaque panels that attach via velcro in the back seat, and block the view of the outside world, forcing instrument-only flying.  

 

The hardest evolution to pass in the AH-64 training pipleline.

 

Seems like it would be easy to do, a good challenge and useful training tool.

[vigilante87]

yes! That would be awesome!

[Elunnia]

I understand this irl, like blue bomb. But in simulator, you can just set the météo and time to fly in the dark  

I suppose you already do that if you are flying plane on IFR. 

It's like the blue bomb, when I trained myself on A10 or FA18, I never pick them up, It's virtual so blowing some stuff is at least more enjoyable and visible than a little white smoke.

 

 

[Kang]

I'm pretty sure the C-101 trainer jet in DCS has this feature, perhaps even the L-39. It's true that you can just as well set the actual outside visibility to zero in the sim, but if you multicrew it the advantage is that you can have an instructor who can see to check for any errors in real time.

[fargo007]

2 hours ago, Kang said:

I'm pretty sure the C-101 trainer jet in DCS has this feature, perhaps even the L-39. It's true that you can just as well set the actual outside visibility to zero in the sim, but if you multicrew it the advantage is that you can have an instructor who can see to check for any errors in real time.

 

This is how it's done IRL. 

 

Just setting it to nighttime isn't remotely the same. 

[Fri13]

8 minutes ago, fargo007 said:

Just setting it to nighttime isn't remotely the same. 

 

It isn't. Why we need the bag. 

[Northstar98]

On 4/28/2021 at 1:33 PM, Kang said:

I'm pretty sure the C-101 trainer jet in DCS has this feature, perhaps even the L-39. It's true that you can just as well set the actual outside visibility to zero in the sim, but if you multicrew it the advantage is that you can have an instructor who can see to check for any errors in real time.

 

Yep L-39 definitely has a hood that is used to force instruments only, while allowing the instructor to see just fine.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Northstar98

[Sinclair_76]

Although sensationalized in Firebirds, or whatever it's called state side, the bag was (is?) considered as a right of passage for the Apache pilot. 

 

I would love it to have the option to close the backseat cockpit with light blocking curtains to train NVS flight operations. Especially in VR it could give the simpilot pretty much the same experience as the real deal. 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Sinclair_76

[AlphaOneSix]

The whole purpose of the bag is to simulate a scenario where the pilot can't see without using the aircraft's systems. In DCS, that is easy to do already without making more work for the dev team.

 

Unless you want a situation where you are in MP multicrew and one pilot can't see and the other one can.

[Sinclair_76]

No night is dark enough to simulate the bag. 

 

 

[Flying.Panda]

Rural Afghan with zero moon is basically the bag...

 

If you want to simulate it, you could set time to night and add some fog if the area you want to fly has to many urban lights. Using the bag in theatre is obviously not realistic.

[Sinclair_76]

The point I was trying to get across that the bag was considered a right of passage in the AQC and it would be cool to offer the same experience in DCS.

[Sinclair_76]

Something like a training mission. Maybe some traffic patterns followed by some hover work. IRL it pretty much stops there, but I imagine that in DCS you could augment it with some NOE type flying from a to b, where you will get penalties for flying too high. 

 

Understanding the symbology could be done by some kind of familiarization flight with the IP and some theory (manual). It's DCS after all and the big rig is a serious helicopter, it will demand some study and training.

[fargo007]

This might even be do-able with just a skin....

[FalcoGer]

The Apache is not rated for IMC. Thus this is pointless.

[Crptalk]

1 hour ago, FalcoGer said:

The Apache is not rated for IMC. Thus this is pointless.

It's almost like it's meant to simulate night flying using pnvs/tads. Someone should tell the Army it's useless then because they've been using it for simulated night flying since the beginning.

[kgillers3]

2 hours ago, FalcoGer said:

The Apache is not rated for IMC. Thus this is pointless.

I think this is hilarious. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by kgillers3

[kgillers3]

Off topic, kinda but cause @FalcoGer took it to imc, my first time ever dealing with IFR and IMC for holds and approaches were in a D-model LCT.  

Also Bag, not for IMC, good try tho

 

Its so people can't see you go potty in the aircraft.  Super secret, don't tell anyone. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by kgillers3

[Sinclair_76]

On 10/23/2021 at 12:34 AM, kgillers3 said:

Off topic, kinda but cause @FalcoGer took it to imc, my first time ever dealing with IFR and IMC for holds and approaches were in a D-model LCT. 

Wut? No IFR in IERW? 

[kgillers3]

27 minutes ago, Sinclair_76 said:

Wut? No IFR in IERW? 

Prior to flight school, had no idea what I was doin, just was being coached the whole time 

Edited October 24, 2021 by kgillers3

[Mad Dog 762]

There are what look to be pull up shades clearly visible in the video's.  No idea if they are functional, but you just MAY get your wish!

[kgillers3]

1 hour ago, Mad Dog 762 said:

There are what look to be pull up shades clearly visible in the video's.  No idea if they are functional, but you just MAY get your wish!

The bat wings! Yeah different purpose. Tbh with your profile pic I thought you knew what they were for.  Maybe you do and your playing coy. 

 

for the peeps not familiar. @Sinclair_76 is requesting for a training tool which puts curtains on all canopy’s for the back station so you can’t see out of it.  The purpose of this is to force them to fly off of nvs while the cpg is full day and has the visibility to keep the helicopter safe while someone is new and learning. It’s not for imc or anything else. It’s also used so peeps can get system time in places like Alaska where during the summer it doesn’t get dark enough. 
 

the batwings aren’t designed to limit visibility out, they’re the little pull up accordion looking things that the velcro is always bad on. They have a different purpose that someone else can probably look forward to answering 

Edited October 24, 2021 by kgillers3
accordion

[Talonfox]

The bag is an irreplaceable but traumatic training phase. After more than 20 years IRL, I have more PTSD from 19 hours in the bag than in a hand full of combat deployments. Although, reading the public feedback would certainly be amusing if a bag training mission were to be incorporated into this module.

[Talonfox]

Believe it or not, there was an effort a couple years ago to get rid of the bag all together and do all the NVS training at night. And if that wasn't enough, another program attempted to assess the viability of replacing part of initial common core training with VR. Both faded into history and FSXXI is still working a variant of the original AH-64D CMP circa 2002.