Waiting for my new toy!

[RedTiger]

Gary, your last post made me want to add something to be fair to zaelu; it is very important to be informed and know about the alternatives.

 

EDIT: My crystal ball tells me that this thread will be moved to the tech forum. :D

Edited November 12, 2008 by RedTiger

[Gary]

Red,

 

I'm sorry if my post came across as critical of anyone, that wasnt my intention at all.

 

I just wanted to point out that informed comparison is good and I'm in no position to do that as I don't know enough about either product..

 

Apologise if I offended anyone...

 

Regards,

 

Gary

[RedTiger]

Red,

 

I'm sorry if my post came across as critical of anyone, that wasnt my intention at all.

 

I just wanted to point out that informed comparison is good and I'm in no position to do that as I don't know enough about either product..

 

Apologise if I offended anyone...

 

Regards,

 

Gary

 

No...I was the critical one, perhaps too critical.

[zaelu]

:) Well in my country is a saying: "Is not stupid the one that ask the price, is stupid the one that pays it"... is a rather harsh saying but it fits some places.

 

IMHO if you accept to pay a premium price for something that does same job as another free product is your mistake (there are many other names that discribe this kind of attitude but we shouldn't enter in details :D )

 

About trying to lock the users... well:

 

http://forum.free-track.net/index.php?showtopic=1255

 

Why would you need an encrypted interface? The oblivious buyer calls it a "software update"... I can't ;) .

 

And yes, I use Linux and other free software but cause of my line of work I need to know to use other variants of software too. Yes I have/had HOTAS payed at premium prices but, never because they brought with the price the guarantee of quality but, because of functionality and availability... I had Saiteks X45, 52 and 52 Pro and Thrustmaster Cougar. never had CH cause of the imense patriarchal driven hype (yes I tested a bit the whole CH setup, Hotas and pedals and didn't like them). I use a X52 pro atm and is a bit moded and I would moded even more if I had the time... and no, I don't have a good impresion about Saitek either.

 

Fact is, in our society a company can bring to life a product line a bit sooner and more widely available but, with a big price and not only in money but, in progress posibility too. "They" always default to make more money confusing the means with the goal thus you find yourself using 20 years later same old technology but, painted in shinier but cheaper colors.

 

I say all this cause imho is a bad thing to see people throwing away their (free) posibilities cause of bad and simplistic assumptions like: "value for money...if you pay very little, you USUALLY get very little". Great businessmen (the true opportunists I may say :) ) act the other way arround and they prosper: "buy as cheap as possible and sell as pricey as possible".

 

And there is no "hatred" in my words... I just say what my ideas are after rationalising a bit on those facts. I am sorry for "natural point" but, they don't look same lucky as... say... microsoft :) .

[Gary]

Zaelu,

 

I'm not disagreeing with necessarily. Just saying its not so easy sometimes to compare like for like.

 

As an example. You want to buy a car...you have a choice...mini or rolls royce

 

Both cars that get you from A to B. Both do the same job...but the price difference brings better quality and options

 

Of course if you can buy a rolls royce for mini money....great!!!..lol

 

Regards,

 

Gary

[zaelu]

I think the comparision betwen Freetrack and TIR with Rolls and Mini is a bit... forced but, if it makes you feel better... :D

 

(I don't like any of those cars anyways :P )

[RedTiger]

IMHO if you accept to pay a premium price for something that does same job as another free product is your mistake (there are many other names that discribe this kind of attitude but we shouldn't enter in details :D )

 

Let me share a phrase popular from my country:

 

Time is money

 

A person's time is valuable. My time is valuable to me. What you call "free" I call "quite a bit of work to make and get it to work with no guarantee it will work and therefore been a total waste of time AND money".

 

It doesn't have anything to do with quality. It has everything to do with:

 

1. Not wanting to waste my time when others do it better (common concept here; you focus on your strengths and compensate others to do what they can do better than you)

 

2. Wanting to have some sort of support that device "x" is intended to work with product "y".

 

Want proof that this is the way things generally work in the real world? Ask people why they buy a Dell desktop instead of building their own. Despite the fact that I have built my own, I have absolutely no problems understanding why others do not.

 

So...why don't you go into business building superior IR Trackers? If you can show me that you're product is better than Track IR and all the same games support it, I'll pay you the premium price. :D

[Gary]

Zaelu,

 

Thank you for indulging me....I think both cars are crap too btw....lol

 

Happy flying...

 

Regards,

 

Gary

[zaelu]

RedTiger, the difference between us is that I simply don't think time is money. If one car run me over tomorrow and I die, I will not lose money... but something else ;).

 

"Time is money" and "How much you pay is how much is worth"... sorry, not my motto's :smartass: .

[RedTiger]

Fair enough, but please realize that you are "unique" to the point that your view is not one commonly held by the majority. The entire world is nothing but one big cycle of compensating others for expertise they have that you don't and cannot/will not obtain because of opportunity costs. Otherwise everyone would have to be to jack of all trades, which would suck because it would just make almost everything everyone does mediocre. Mediocrity sucks. ;)

[uhoh7]

Just want to thank all the folks in here: I'm an old simmer, never did like the original track IR, but I bought the latest setup for BS and I'm gonna try an get setup in the next few days.

 

The info here is really gonna help.

[Mxyzpylk]

Next to the joystick, the TrackIR is the best investment I ever made for my PC gaming. You won't be dissappointed.

[Bulletstop]

I have track 3 and clip pro and have not looked back since. In fact I can not believe I how I got along with out it.

It is so bad I have since introduced and got 2 of my friends hooked too. Once you learn how to set up the profiles it runs sweet. Even with the lesser model it works great in Falcon AF, IL2 , LOMAC FC, and now BS.

I truly love the 6fov, it makes the game so much better.

Bullet

[Outlaw24]

You made a great decision, you will not be sorry, once you get beyond the learning curve.

[element1108]

It brings BS to a whole new level!

[uhoh7]

Hi Guys----I'm mostly setup, but the one thing missing is head going vertically up and down, in and out. I have all other movements.

 

TrackIR 4 proclip

 

any suggestions,

 

TY sirs

[JonK]

Have you checked your profiles in trackIR to make sure that the axis is turned on?

[bratwurst]

You made a wise decision. I just dusted off mine for my soon to be virgin flight in BS, maybe tonight or in a few days (depending on file download).

[NaturalPoint_Vince]

Hi Guys----I'm mostly setup, but the one thing missing is head going vertically up and down, in and out. I have all other movements.

 

TrackIR 4 proclip

 

any suggestions,

 

TY sirs

 

Make sure you have changed over from vector to TrackClip Pro, in the different profiles.

 

Do you have more than 3 objects on the tracking screen?

Edited December 17, 2008 by NaturalPoint_Vince

[Winder]

Many other people with a bit more patience use FreeTrack. Does the same job (I dare to say better cause I have squad members that use TIR but with problems from game crashes... to loosing tracking solution cause of light in room) but for free (ok you have to pay 15 euros for a webcam and sacrifice it to make it IR only).

 

I'm sorry to sound like a party braker ( :) ) but, I think people should be informed (inform them selves is idealy) of the alternatives.

 

Natural point exploited a need (small niche ok) and tried it's best to lock the customers (heh... it still tries) to milk their money (40$ for three bad IR leds with a lauzy USB cable? rip off... anyone? one good IR led costs 0.25 Euros.). If naturalpoint haven't existed small programs like "freelook" had been evolved into solid ones like "freetrack" a lot faster. Don't be fooled by their monopol into believing you couldn't make it without them... other monopolistic organisations do the same... I don give names but you can see their logo at a key press ;) .

 

At the moment there are other video motion tracking technologies that are evolving quite nicely...

 

here, take a look:

 

Mgestyk Gesture Control System

 

http://gizmodo.com/index.php?refId=5078731

 

or Camspace (cam-trax):

 

 

TIR looks from iceage compare to them...

It looks like I'm only halfway through this thread, so I'm probably chiming in on a conversation that's already well under way, but I read this and thought, "yikes!" So, I'm jumping in. :pilotfly:

 

Like you, I like to be well informed. I think I have a different understanding of TrackIR/FreeTrack though? I'll admit that I have two TrackIR 4 units + TrackClip Pro, and they both treat me very well, so I'm partial to them.

 

How do they do the "same" job? I know that the function is the same, but surely the performance cannot be. I haven't used FreeTrack, but I think that most webcams have wimpy specs when compared to a TrackIR camera. Especially if you combine FPS, resolution, and field of view. Certainly FreeTrack can't be "better," if it is fundamentally worse on a hardware level. Maybe I should try it out for myself and see. :)

 

Also, to your other points...

 

*How did NaturalPoint "exploit" a niche demand when that demand did not exist prior to their product? It seems that they created the demand. How then is it even possible to exploit it?

 

*As far as pricing... you do know that it costs more than the price of raw materials to manufacture things, right? Something like labor might factor into their pricepoint. I think they make everything in the US instead of relying on cheap overseas labor (which is usually exploitative in nature).

 

* "TIR looks from iceage compare to them." I wasn't aware that the Ice Age was so technologically advanced compared to our own. ;) Actually, I think that the projects you linked to are conceptually very cool, but obviously they are currently plagued by latency issues. Maybe if the responsiveness issues get ironed out, these will actually be viable contributions to modern gaming. Hopefully so! Either way, these dont' seem to be competing products to either TrackIR or FreeTrack. They certainly don't track as well as TrackIR.

 

Interesting discussion, though. :)

 

And to the original poster (and back on point)... you're going to love your new toy!

[Wags]

Make sure you have changed over from vector to TrackClip Pro, in the different profiles.

 

Do you have more than 3 objects on the tracking scren?

 

 

Thanks for taking part in our forums Vince.

 

Thanks,

Matt

[NaturalPoint_Vince]

No issues, try to help out, where I can.... :)

[greywolf134]

I got a problem with the ---> Tracking:Vector ...I switch it over to to Track Clip Pro and I get nothin it stops working....any ideas???

[uhoh7]

Have you checked your profiles in trackIR to make sure that the axis is turned on?

 

 

Thank you very much: that was it.

 

Vince, it doesn't like the trackclip pro setting in the profile. I turned the camera leds off to start. I get smooth tracking on vector with the TCP, but if I change to TCP tracking, it's terrible---"nodata" keeps flashing between "tracking" and movements are very jerky.

 

works great on vector though.

Edited December 17, 2008 by uhoh7

[Havner]

works great on vector though.

 

Ok, stupid question. You really sure you got TCP? The headphone thingie on the left side of your head with 3 red leds? Not the metal thingie you put on a cap?

 

My TCP doesn't work properly on Vector settings. And knowing that tracking with vector is active and TCP passive (it has it's own leds) it would be logical that vector get's no data with TCP settings as you described. So from your description it looks like you really are using vector, not TCP. Sorry if mistaken though, just first thought.