Pilot body in VR is not reflecting actual head position in F-86F

[Rosly]

When playing in VR the default position of the pilot body is to high in relation to default position of the head (reset position). By default head lands somewhat on top of the torso (like without a neck).

You look down and feel your chick is inside the body.

 

Switching the "special option" to move head height while landing makes things even worse as the body is static and on one position we are to high, in the other to low in relation to torso. My solution to this is switch this special option off, and hack the reset position by moving a bit higher than needed (but this is frustrating).

 

Is it so hard to make pilot body (at least) in 2 static versions so this option to move head while landing would not make me feel I do not have a neck?

Pilot moves the hand on the throttle and legs on ruder, so there is some sort of dynamic body poses in DCS.

At least devs should move the body model to flight position.

This is less worse than feeling like having torso in your mouth.

 

Anyway not sure but usually there are levers to move the pilot seat a bit.

I didn't found any of such (at least functional) in F-86F in DCS.

If there is one in real jet, why not implement that instead of weird "magic options in the menu that move your head"?

[streakeagle]

From the F-86F manual:

 

Seat Vertical Adjustment Lever.

Mechanical adjustment of the seat is controlled by a

lever at the right of the headrest. Pulling the handle

down releases the seat for adjustment, and it can be

raised when the pilot lifts his weight from the seat.

After adjustment, the seat should be checked that it

is locked.

 

If ED wanted to model the lever, you could only adjust the seat height with a lever on the ground with the canopy open.

In-game, you can achieve the same result by adjusting the head/camera position up or down, then saving the new position.

I disable the height adjustment cheat and used the a saved height that puts my head in the same position as the AI pilot.

While this is realistic, it puts your head up high enough that you may need to be pulling lead or lower your view a bit to see the whole gunsight reticle.

If you are using TrackIR or VR, using a fixed, realistic head height works great.

The default head height in DCS World, like many sims, often puts you in a position to optimize your view of the gunsight and/or instrument panel rather than matching the actual position and/or view angle of real aircraft.

In VR, when there is a virtual pilot body, it is easy to calibrate the head position.

Moving your head and then re-centering the view will quickly give you a realistic position, but putting your head in your natural seated position looking straight forward and then bumping the camera up/down and/or forward back until it matches the VR pilot body will make it easier by starting at the right position and not requiring hold  your head at an odd position while re-centering.

 

[cfrag]

8 hours ago, Rosly said:

You look down and feel your chick is inside the body.

 

I hope that was a typo  

 

8 hours ago, Rosly said:

Switching the "special option" to move head height while landing makes things even worse as the body is static and on one position we are to high, in the other to low in relation to torso.

 

I'm not entirely sure what your issue is: 

• The pilot body model that does not reflect correct body position
• The position of your head (camera) that is too low for flying

If you have issues with how the model looks, yes I believe they are mostly static models (never looked at the Sabre's model, though), with no IK modelling of spine and limbs - to me, that would be a bit much computation for something of little value (it is possible, though, and routinely done in FPS games. But IK solvers are computationally expensive compared to the limited value they would bring here). So when you move your head, stretch or bend your body, the limbs do not react as they should if they were connected through bones. I simply turn off the body model when I fly (and remove the stick as well; the entire chair in the Hind). 

 

If the head position is issue (I have that problem in the A-10 -- A and C) I usually re-position my head a little lower, hit 'center camera' (default keypad 5 I think) and then again sit comfortably. I'm sure that the Pilot Model would look awkward after that (either "pygmy dwarf" or "giraffe neck").

 

 

[Rosly]

14 hours ago, cfrag said:

I hope that was a typo  

 

xD In this days you never know xD
Just kidding

@streakeagle, @cfag Thanks for reply. Yes I do the same (adjusting the VR head position this way or another to get correct view).

 

Having more immerse simulation is always better. It mens IMHO both seat height simulation and body animation would be nice to have.

I didn't even considered that initially but yes, in many VR titles seeing your body that reflect your actual movements (hands, posture) gives this additional "umpf" to the immersion.
I basically flight in VR because of immersion that DCS can give.

[jurinko]

Anyone noticed that after takeoff, the pilot head literally sinks into pilot body and must be recentered? It happens just after gear up or flaps up.

 

For normal flight, when in good position for looking around head is too high to use the hud piper. I crouch when aiming. 

 

Sabre is otherwise cool plane, just having the 2 week trial. One feels in it like at home from the beginning. Click click and it starts!

[streakeagle]

6 hours ago, jurinko said:

Anyone noticed that after takeoff, the pilot head literally sinks into pilot body and must be recentered? It happens just after gear up or flaps up.

 

For normal flight, when in good position for looking around head is too high to use the hud piper. I crouch when aiming. 

 

Sabre is otherwise cool plane, just having the 2 week trial. One feels in it like at home from the beginning. Click click and it starts!

The F-86 Sabre has an option to automatically adjust head height. If you don't like that, you just uncheck the option.

The problem is that the default head height is set to optimal for seeing the instrument panel and the gunsight, which is quite a bit lower than view of a real pilot. So, they added this artificial shift to give you a proper view for take-off / landing then automatically lowering the view for gear-up flight.

As I fly with either TrackIR or VR, I uncheck this box and calibrate my view center to be correct for the virtual body in the cockpit.

 

[Gizmo03]

Am 21.9.2021 um 03:01 schrieb streakeagle:

The F-86 Sabre has an option to automatically adjust head height. If you don't like that, you just uncheck the option.

The problem is that the default head height is set to optimal for seeing the instrument panel and the gunsight, which is quite a bit lower than view of a real pilot. So, they added this artificial shift to give you a proper view for take-off / landing then automatically lowering the view for gear-up flight.

As I fly with either TrackIR or VR, I uncheck this box and calibrate my view center to be correct for the virtual body in the cockpit.

 

The problem is that you can either have the correct hight of the view for the pilot body or for seeing the pipper. Both is not possible.
You can‘t have an adequate view through the gunsight without destroying the immersion when looking to the left or right because the shoulder and the harness is at the same hight as your eyes which is pretty wrong.

The checkbox in the special options for the F-86 doesn‘t solve this problem at all.

[schurem]

So in the real plane, would you adjust the sight glass angle to be able to see the pipper without hunching down weirdly?

[Dragon1-1]

No, AFAIK you would hunch down weirdly. Ergonomics weren't exactly great in those old cockpits. 

[Mars Exulte]

On 3/16/2022 at 6:35 AM, Gizmo03 said:

The problem is that you can either have the correct hight of the view for the pilot body or for seeing the pipper. Both is not possible.

 That's because the gunsight is not aligned with the pilot's eyes. Same thing in the Bf-109. You cannot have the head in the ''correct'' place while also seeing through the gunsight properly because the gunsight is not positioned to do that, period. There is no ''fix'' for that. That is how the aircraft is. It's one or the other.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Mars Exulte

[Gizmo03]

vor 40 Minuten schrieb Mars Exulte:

 That is how the aircraft is. It's one or the other.

In the real aircraft you can raise or lower the seat, which solves the problem. In the 109 it‘s offset to the right. In the F-86 the position of the pilot body is always like with the seat position for landing. If ED would implement the ajustment of the seat like the real aircraft has there wouldn‘t be any problems with that. I can‘t believe at all that the US-Pilots where using this seat position while dogfighting a MiG-15 over Korea.

Edit: just to clearify: i know that the ajustment of the seat position (T/O and landing) is somehow implemented in the special options menue with extending / retracting the gear but it just adjusts the point of view. If you use it while having the pilot body shown, your point of view will adjust to the correct seat position, but your virtual body won‘t which results in shifting your virtual head between your virtual shoulders. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Gizmo03

[Mars Exulte]

Yeah, I understand what you mean O7 I think in some of them you can adjust the seat. Obviously, that doesn't do any good here, though.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Mars Exulte