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Was the Anton good at Air to Air?


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17 minutes ago, Aesirhunter said:

I guess when you talk about the ground attack version you mean the F-8 variant that was adapted to use 96 octane fuel (C3). I agree about MW50, about A-8/R4, GM 1 injection was implemented but it was not widely used, the most used rüstsatz for A-8 were: R2, R6, R7 and R8. And don't worry about that, all good.

 

All  of the Fw-190 was running on C3 Fuel, Jabos (Ground Attack) getting a additional Spray Bar what was injecting the C3 Fuel direct in to the Blower. Cooling the Supercharger Air and probably more rich Fuel/Air mixture will cool the Engine do evaporation of the additional Fuel for the heavy loaded Ground Attack Planes. F8 or G8 190s

 

109 aswell the 190 dont feature a intercooler to for the Supercharger Air, that why this additional C3 was working. Like Water from the P-47.

 

Both is called erhöhte Notleistung C3 Injection aswell the increased Boost for the Fighter Variant without C3.

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The BMW 801D-2 required C3 fuel.

Even for 1.42ATA.


Edited by saburo_cz
EDIT : MAD MM was faster.
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34 minutes ago, Aesirhunter said:

A-8 should be able to achieve 1.6 ATA, that is why I say is not well represented, I feel like is not performing like it should, other than that I love the Anton.

1.56 ATA for 1st gear and 1.65 for 2nd gear.


Edited by grafspee
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On 9/15/2021 at 6:14 AM, Mr_sukebe said:

 

 

So I did some more research last night.   According to several sources the 190A8 had a roll rate of a 162 deg per second at 255mph(410km/h).

 

Compared to the P-51D which had a 71 deg per second at 200kias.  

 

Which is less than half the rate of the 190.

 

It doesn't feel or even come close to those numbers in game.

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I was looking forward to getting the Anton, but have been so disappointed that I rarely (like never) fly her nowadays. I found her next to impossible to land with that stiff, bouncy gear, which is doubly bad in fragility. I love to take off, fly and land em...I'm not so much of a dogfighter, which the Anton is not. Now the Mossie - well, there is an aeroplane you can love!

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Old myths die hard.

 

There was no MW50 in operational Antons. Ever. No GM-1, ever.

The 115l Reichweitenbehälter was either used with C3 fuel, or not used altogether and possibly removed. The latter is unlikely.

 

Erhöhte Notleistung became a thing in August '44. Before that, yes, the Anton was really "that bad" in comparison with the allied fighters.

 

No, the A-6 thru A-8 were not specially armored-up. There were special versions of A-6 thru A-8 airframes, though.

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So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!

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  • 5 weeks later...

I've said it before many times, the Fw190 (A8 & D9) both lack in Clmax as compared to RL values for the type of airfoil profile it used, hence why it can't even compete with the P-47 or Mosquito in turns in DCS, whilst in reality it was on par with the P-51 (and better down low).

It's the same reason the F4U was found significantly superior to the P-51 when it came to turning in US Navy trials, despite it actually having a higher wing loading than the P-51. The NACA 6 digit profile that the Fw190, F4U & F6F used quite simply provided a higher max lift coefficient at mach numbers below 0.5 than most other profiles, esp. the low drag NACA 66 series. 

utyrTdZ.png

 


Edited by Hummingbird
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  • 2 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I love the Anton, especially in dogfights. The machine, like any other, has its strengths and weaknesses.
In my opinion, it is neither inferior to the Spitfire, nor the P51.

I'm a bad shot, but their guns make up for my weaknesses.

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On 15/1/2022 at 21:06, konyanyachiwa said:

I feel very disappointed. His abilities as a pilot against an AI are very good. But you wouldn't last even 5 seconds fighting like this, against a human pilot. Its speed is excessively low almost all the time it stays below 400 IAS, with a fighter that basically relies on energy. A moderately experienced human pilot is not going to risk himself in front of you and less, when the energy of his plane is dead. Test yourself on a PvP server.

Don't worry, it happens to many virtual pilots. With the AI they think they are Erich Hartmann and when they find pilots in PvP, they become Private Snafu at best.

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The AI fighters mostly let you target them head-on and they don't shoot in a head-on situation. I just tried this with a Dora vs Spit AI set to "Ace", and it was like target practice.
I know that in the (somewhat distant) past they would engage me head-on and quite often got me, especially at the higher skill levels.
I agre that this tactic would not work in MP, the guys are generally too good for that. Unfortunately I cannot fight in MP due to my poor eyesight.

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On the topic of rubbish, what's the best way to fight or flee in this thing when you're forced into an unadvantagous flight? E.g. operating at lower altitude for A2G (or because the mission demands it) then you get jumped by Spits. The Anton can't turn for squat, you're at low altitude and can't get into a good energy position because of low overcast, can't outrun the buggers....are you just hopelessly screwed?

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4 minutes ago, Nealius said:

On the topic of rubbish, what's the best way to fight or flee in this thing when you're forced into an unadvantagous flight? E.g. operating at lower altitude for A2G (or because the mission demands it) then you get jumped by Spits. The Anton can't turn for squat, you're at low altitude and can't get into a good energy position because of low overcast, can't outrun the buggers....are you just hopelessly screwed?

You can roll quicker than anyone else. You can use that to your advantage.

(And you could also of course fly in the clouds to get rid of them)

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Roll rate seems pretty slow for me...but that may have been my shot-up ailerons. Then the question is what do I do with the roll rate? I can't turn more than 2~3G without bleeding all my energy. Barrel rolls aren't exactly useful. Not enough altitude for a Split-S if jumped during A2G. The AI can still see through clouds at the moment, right?


Edited by Nealius
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In days A8 entered service.... that was "exactly" what Luftwaffe high commanders "wanted-needed". A heavy frontal armoured tank-A/C with a heavy punch, in western theatre for high speed frontal passes against allied "heavy boxes" and in the eastern front in the roll of tank-busters and CAS missions (Schlachtgeschwaders) replacing the old Stukkas. You can do same questions to nowadays active jet attacker- fighter 4th. generation A/C's like A-10 or Su-25,...and will get same answers: can you dogfight? Of course you can... but you got to know that if you force the close combat ( I mean 1 vs. 1) you got enough lotto tickets to be the looser most of the times against the ingame Spits and Mustangs. The only advantage you got is the instant rolling rate, but a veteran allied pilot just only need to add  any vertical component to his maneuvers  to counterstrike your horizontal scissors.... and...(if you got no buddies to back up you) the rest is history, an inminent "respawn" or 99% times a player disconnection from the server ;-)). 

So in terms of WW2 circumstances the ingame A8 is a pretty decent Bomber hunter and an excellent CAS air platform. In terms we use to fly ingame ( in multiplayer enviroments and 1 vs. 1) it's not the best choice for someone who enjoy dogfighting after loosing the B & Z "sneaky- surprise element- energy advantage".  

Here you have an example of how to cut the scissors as I told before.

 


Edited by OLD CROW

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  • 3 weeks later...

Against AI, fighters and bombers, I'm still finding it rubbish. It's amazing for A2G, though.

The bombers in particular, the "zoom" part of boom-and-zoom isn't working. I dive from a 1,000m altitude advantage, hit a bomber, then when I try to zoom back up, my airspeed plummets like a rock and I'm barely able to get coaltitude with the bombers, by which point they've extended at least a mile away from me, and I can't catch up for a second pass. 


Edited by Nealius
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vor einer Stunde schrieb Nealius:

Against AI, fighters and bombers, I'm still finding it rubbish. It's amazing for A2G, though.

The bombers in particular, the "zoom" part of boom-and-zoom isn't working. I dive from a 1,000m altitude advantage, hit a bomber, then when I try to zoom back up, my airspeed plummets like a rock and I'm barely able to get coaltitude with the bombers, by which point they've extended at least a mile away from me, and I can't catch up for a second pass. 

 

I think in the case with the A8 it would be better to make one surprise attack and get away for not being engaged by the escort fighters.

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