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Was the Anton good at Air to Air?


Bagpipe

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12 hours ago, Nealius said:

The bombers in particular, the "zoom" part of boom-and-zoom isn't working. I dive from a 1,000m altitude advantage, hit a bomber, then when I try to zoom back up, my airspeed plummets like a rock and I'm barely able to get coaltitude with the bombers, by which point they've extended at least a mile away from me, and I can't catch up for a second pass. 

 

Which is why the F 190B and C variants were trialled; the 801 engined Würgern  were never much cop at higher altitudes, but this was ok in 1941/42 when neither were it's contemporaries. However as two stage superchargers or turbos started seeing far more prevalence amongst their foes into 1943 and beyond it became more of an issue.

With the B and C efforts to increase high altitude performance a flop, and Tank struggling to get authorisation to utilise an already oversubscribed resource of Daimler Benz engines to power the future 190 and Ta 152 variants, he is obliged to use the Jumo, ostensibly a 'bomber engine' to give him the required high altitude oomph for the D series. But this takes time....

Meanwhile the Jagdwaffe must soldier on with the A series. They lighten it a bit with the A-6, which is good and helps a bit, but are finding the MG17s are just not up to much especially as the opponents are more and more becoming heavy-bombers. So in the A-7 they fit the MG131 instead. However, having just lightened the aircraft, they've made it heavier again... (don't even get me started on the Sturmbocks...)

Jadgwaffe: "Nevermind, we won't be fighting Allied fighter aircraft over the Vaterland! We'll be able to make our head on attacks on the lead bomber formations then sweep round to slowly overtake the viermots without worry from any fighter escort...." 

P-51B: " Hold my beer..."

P-47 with droptanks: "Hold on sonny Jim, I was here first..."


Edited by DD_Fenrir
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So if I understand this correctly, in A2A the A8 is only good at:

- one pass haul ass against bomber formations

- limited peer combat if you are flying with other human pilots with good teamwork and from an advantageous position

Which pretty much leaves single player out of the equation 🥴

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You can kill almost everything in SP if you attack head-on. See attached track.
If you didn't damage him badly enough the first time continue straight at full power to get some distance, then turn around without losing too much energy and go for a new head-on attack. Works most of the time for me. Fire with all guns!
Probably not realistic, but neither is the stellar performance of the AI.

FW-190A Head-On kill Spit Veteran.trk

PS: I need to use labels due to my poor eye sight and the poor presentation of small targets on my screen.


Edited by LeCuvier

LeCuvier

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If DCS had the option to remove the outer cannons this would have helped a lot in using the A8 as a fighter. Less firepower sure, but you still have the same guns as the Dora, which is enough.

“Mosquitoes fly, but flies don’t Mosquito” :pilotfly:

- Geoffrey de Havilland.

 

... well, he could have said it!

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1 hour ago, Bozon said:

If DCS had the option to remove the outer cannons this would have helped a lot in using the A8 as a fighter. Less firepower sure, but you still have the same guns as the Dora, which is enough.

God idea, all 4 20mm are useful against bombers, dismounting 2 outer 20m would strip something like 200kg, probably improving roll rate at the same time, at least roll rate acceleration.


Edited by grafspee

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Bozon:

If DCS had the option to remove the outer cannons this would have helped a lot in using the A8 as a fighter. Less firepower sure, but you still have the same guns as the Dora, which is enough.

And if the FW-A8 had the "Erhöhte Notleistung" in DCS, that would make her much powerful at lower altitudes and would help a lot in dogfights.

Viggen GIF 2.gif

"If we don't end war, war will end us."  

H. G. Wells

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I think Erhöhte Notleistung in case A-8 is increased boost from 1.42 to 1.58 for low and 1.65 high blower and has nothing common with c3 injection.

And this wasn't announced by ED i think, so yes F-8 should get this c3 injection but this is only allowed for low blower, i may be wrong here but this is how i understand that.

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reading your commentary is exciting.

but all I'm waiting on for now is the delayed fusing so I can do some proper low level bombing runs in my favorite wwII bird without blowing off its wings..

🙂

😐

If ED doesn't include delayed fusing in tomorrows update I'll do something drastic. Like not play DCS for couple of days. Sigh.

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4 hours ago, grafspee said:

I think Erhöhte Notleistung in case A-8 is increased boost from 1.42 to 1.58 for low and 1.65 high blower and has nothing common with c3 injection.

And this wasn't announced by ED i think, so yes F-8 should get this c3 injection but this is only allowed for low blower, i may be wrong here but this is how i understand that.

I meant the remove outer wing cannons option, or I guess not option but the aircraft should just be actually like that hence lighter in that regard though heavier in the armour one.

Anyway, something about the C3 option in F8 was also talked about, I can't recall exactly what but I guess something about if it was correct for that model it will just be there, or the like.

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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You can remove ammo for missions against fighters, taking 50% is sufficient and you can already feel the removed mass (notably in climb at max continuous power). 

But it would be amazing to remove outer cannon, you save 175 kg + less drag and if you take only 50% ammo you save 90 kg more, which means 265 in total, if in game you can remove 116 kg and you see the difference then I cannot imagine the performance gain with 265 kg removed.

And if you want to go very far like a manniac it would be cool to change the ammo loadout per gun, so I will remove more mg131 ammo and make them correspond to the mg151 ammo so when my mg151 will run out of ammo then the mg131 will so.

But an option to remove outer gun is sufficient for me 

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I know people will use it like that day one, but it still was a ground pounder variant, remember.

 

8 hours ago, Blackbird12 said:

You can remove ammo for missions against fighters, taking 50% is sufficient and you can already feel the removed mass (notably in climb at max continuous power). 

But it would be amazing to remove outer cannon, you save 175 kg + less drag and if you take only 50% ammo you save 90 kg more, which means 265 in total, if in game you can remove 116 kg and you see the difference then I cannot imagine the performance gain with 265 kg removed.

And if you want to go very far like a manniac it would be cool to change the ammo loadout per gun, so I will remove more mg131 ammo and make them correspond to the mg151 ammo so when my mg151 will run out of ammo then the mg131 will so.

But an option to remove outer gun is sufficient for me 

Indeed, if we finally get not only F8 variant but G8 variant, also said we would be getting, the nose guns would be removed and you'll be even lighter but with higher fuel capacity 😁 .

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb Ala13_ManOWar:

if we finally get not only F8 variant but G8 variant, also said we would be getting

I haven't heard any mention of these modifications in a long time. Is there any information about them?

Viggen GIF 2.gif

"If we don't end war, war will end us."  

H. G. Wells

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2 hours ago, Jagdgeschwader said:

I haven't heard any mention of these modifications in a long time. Is there any information about them?

No idea 🤷‍♂️

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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  • 4 months later...

You can be pretty successful, though, if the circumstances work in your favor.

One of my very rare multiplayer missions on the Storm of War server, there was an allied bomber formation incoming. 8 bombers, altitude 8km. Got 5 of them and one P-47 in between. Wasn't alone, of course. Initially there was a friendly 109, later there were two more. One of them tangled with a Spit, keeping it away from us.

If you're going against air targets, take the mineshell (anti-bomber) ammunition and remove the bomb mount. Don't attack the bombers from the rear. Only the last one you can attack from the rear because you'll be damaged for sure.

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  • 4 months later...

I'm not surprised people think the Fw190A is a terrible air-to-air aircraft. The instant action dogfight missions start you at a substantial disadvantage in speed and height and with a wingman who seems to be of a very low skill level.

DCS WWII player. I run the mission design team behind 4YA WWII, the most popular DCS World War 2 server.

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Stop necro-ing this post JEEEEEZ lol

When I originally posted back then I had only SP experience and yeah the instant actions are terrible.
Since then, I became a master Anton sergeant and nothing can stop me.

Moral of the story, test your modules in multiplayer for realistic representation and learn how to use your aircraft's strengths and weaknesses to your advantage.
Helps if you start higher than your opponent if engaging in air to air in the Anton.

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2 hours ago, Bagpipe said:

When I originally posted back then I had only SP experience and yeah the instant actions are terrible.
Since then, I became a master Anton sergeant and nothing can stop me.

Moral of the story, test your modules in multiplayer for realistic representation and learn how to use your aircraft's strengths and weaknesses to your advantage.
Helps if you start higher than your opponent if engaging in air to air in the Anton.

That's quite nice of you, indeed. You changed, learnt, changed your mind, but post title is still the same and people wouldn't know otherwise 😅 .

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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1 hour ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

 but post title is still the same and people wouldn't know otherwise 😅 .

can i delete the whole thing lol.

Nah, it may contain valuable info for those willing to read through and will serve as a constant reminded to the community to never listen to a Scotsman!

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1 hour ago, Bagpipe said:

can i delete the whole thing lol.

Nah, it may contain valuable info for those willing to read through and will serve as a constant reminded to the community to never listen to a Scotsman!

Yeah, no need to delete anything, but posts are editable and if you edit the first one title is changeable too, so at least for the first post (not every single answer OC) it'd be different so it'll appear in the forum section with the new title without even bothering a mod for that :thumbup:.


Edited by Ala13_ManOWar
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"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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  • Bagpipe changed the title to Was the Anton good at Air to Air?
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