Intel 12th gen (Alder Lake) processors: price and benchmarks, and DDR5 memory performance

[Lurker]

I have kind of stopped following the latest on AlderLake when it leaked out that the leaked benchmarks were tested against an AMD CPU that was running on a version of Windows 11 that severely downgraded AMDs performance. That's low, even for Intel. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Lurker

[tapi]

I am desperately looking for CPU upgrade too, but unfortunatelly not now for Alder Lake with it's high temps and high prices for eveything.

Though having been Intel fan for many years, I am looking now with hope for new Ryzens with enlarged L3 cache (called V-cache) that should be launched at the beginning of Q1/2022 See here
V-cache Ryzen 5900X will have 192MB L3 cache which sounds pretty impressive.
AMD claims 15% performance uplift over current Ryzen 5000 series and it remains Zen 3 platform.

So hopefully these new Ryzens will be comparable with Alder Lake top models but with lower temps and lower prices for CPU and MB.

Edited November 5, 2021 by tapi

[TAW_Impalor]

I might be reading this wrong, but full speed for DDR5 is only supported in 2 module configuration. Tridents and Ripjaws were announced as 2x16Gb sets. DCS in the foreseeable future will need 64. So for me it makes no sense to take a plunge, I'd wait another year or so, for 2x32 DDR5 6600 (or more) with good timings...

Edited November 5, 2021 by impalor

[Vullcan]

32GB of DDR5 5200mhz is fine for now, just resell it later and buy better RAM if benchmarks come out showing a dramatic improvement. 

The only reason I wouldn't upgrade to Alder Lake is if you have a recent gen and are happy with your performance.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Vullcan

[agrasyuk]

Loos like a mighty good CPU . being on the 10th gen. I will be sitting this one out. 

[Harlikwin]

4 hours ago, agrasyuk said:

Loos like a mighty good CPU . being on the 10th gen. I will be sitting this one out. 

the jump from 9 to 12 seems worth it.

 

[Vitallini]

13 hours ago, Vullcan said:

32GB of DDR5 5200mhz is fine for now, just resell it later and buy better RAM if benchmarks come out showing a dramatic improvement. 

The only reason I wouldn't upgrade to Alder Lake is if you have a recent gen and are happy with your performance.

 

That was what I was thinking as well, but then I wondered if early motherboards would be able to run the ddr5 ram that will be available in a few years at max speed? Anyone have any thoughts about this? As I need all the usb-ports I can get I have to buy a fairly pricey motherboard. Also I’d like to avoid switching out the motherboard just because of the hassle. 

[BitMaster]

1 hour ago, Vitallini said:

That was what I was thinking as well, but then I wondered if early motherboards would be able to run the ddr5 ram that will be available in a few years at max speed? Anyone have any thoughts about this? As I need all the usb-ports I can get I have to buy a fairly pricey motherboard. Also I’d like to avoid switching out the motherboard just because of the hassle. 

If I had to bet I'd bet that those current Z690 boards will not accept any DDR5 module from the future...and there also is the IMC, both have to accept the RAM.

DDR5 is nice but not for now imho.

[VpR81]

17 hours ago, impalor said:

I might be reading this wrong, but full speed for DDR5 is only supported in 2 module configuration. Tridents and Ripjaws were announced as 2x16Gb sets. DCS in the foreseeable future will need 64. So for me it makes no sense to take a plunge, I'd wait another year or so, for 2x32 DDR5 6600 (or more) with good timings...

Crucial does offer a 2x 32GB kit DDR5-4800 and they will propably come up with faster kits in the next few weeks i guess. G.Skill announced DDR5-7000 with already acceptable timings to be released within November. Progress with DDR5 is much faster than with DDR4. IIRC DDR4 took like a year or so until it had higher speeds than DDR3. Very different with DDR5 now as it seems. If it's only for DDR5 and not for Zen4, i realy don't think you need to wait another year...

[TAW_Impalor]

23 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

Crucial does offer a 2x 32GB kit DDR5-4800 and they will propably come up with faster kits in the next few weeks i guess. G.Skill announced DDR5-7000 with already acceptable timings to be released within November. Progress with DDR5 is much faster than with DDR4. IIRC DDR4 took like a year or so until it had higher speeds than DDR3. Very different with DDR5 now as it seems. If it's only for DDR5 and not for Zen4, i realy don't think you need to wait another year...

Sure, I hope so. Want to order all pieces at once. Right now the RAM support list by Intel is too short: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/central-libraries/us/en/documents/xmp-memory-for-intel-core-processors-datasheet-ddr5.pdf

Edited November 6, 2021 by impalor

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Ok so i went with the "Gigabyte Aorus Pro" motherboard. 

Apparently (and especially if you want to do even the slightest of overclocking) you need a very beefy power delivery. 
Not sure if i am doing it right, but if you take that @ stock the 12900K can already ask for a whopping 350 watts (peak) , it looks like you won't get those high boost clocks if your motherboard has 'crappy' power delivery. 

From what i read, you're supposed to multiply the number of 'phases' with the amps , and then divide by 3.  The number that rolls out of that should be about the max wattage the board can deliver (stable). 
I also read that when you go really budget board, you might lose a bunch of performance on the 12900k, but probably only during very heavy workloads ? Anyway apparently it can cost you  up to 20% loss in performance when going for a budget motherboard. Simply because they can not deliver enough power. 

For those interested, check out this link : https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-intel-z690-motherboard-roundup-ocn-edition.1794800/

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Vullcan]

That's true for synthetic benchmarks but gaming doesn't use as much power.

So, I'd expect you to be able to max out the processor in DCS with a cheaper motherboard.

BUT, that said if you're building a new rig around a $600 processor, and all of the other expensive components (with the covid tax these days)... and plan to overclock it, I'd get the same power that you did too just for the peace of mind.

 

[TAW_Impalor]

With power management on DIMMs and memory controllers on CPU, motherboards are just "wires". But we want the lowest noise and no switching ranks, so only look at 2 DIMM models. Aorus Tachyon is the most future-proof mobo, in my opinion.

[Paramedic10]

I have a 12900k sitting in a box here next to me with a 4800 mhz 2x32gb DDR5 kit... Just waiting on my motherboard. Coming from a 9900K @ 5.2, 32gb DDR4 @ 3600. GPU is a 3090 KPE.

Once I get the board in,  I'll try and post up some data on here comparing performance between the two CPUs in standard 2D and VR. Running Windows 10.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

^

I still have an 8700k (altough at 5 ghz 24/7) and it's finally time to upgrade. 

For DCS i expect literally 0 improvement , nothing new works on this program so for me no hopes there . 


 

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, Paramedic10 said:

I have a 12900k sitting in a box here next to me with a 4800 mhz 2x32gb DDR5 kit... Just waiting on my motherboard. Coming from a 9900K @ 5.2, 32gb DDR4 @ 3600. GPU is a 3090 KPE.

Once I get the board in,  I'll try and post up some data on here comparing performance between the two CPUs in standard 2D and VR. Running Windows 10.

 

Please do. I'm coming from a 9700k but still need to get a few more components. 

[Elidji]

2 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

^

I still have an 8700k (altough at 5 ghz 24/7) and it's finally time to upgrade. 

For DCS i expect literally 0 improvement , nothing new works on this program so for me no hopes there . 


 

I upgraded from a 8700k to a 12700k and I can tell you that in VR you can feel the difference.

I don't have numbers to prove it but when I went to the Growling World at war server it was WAY smoother !

I also put my my view distance from high to ultra and it works perfectly, I coudn't do that before with the 8700k.

[VpR81]

1 hour ago, Elidji said:

I upgraded from a 8700k to a 12700k and I can tell you that in VR you can feel the difference.

That sounds good, thanks for the heads up. Coming from a  6800K, i will hopefull see even more improvement in VR than you did. That 12900K may at least be able to properly feed my GPU then... Just a few questiond. What RAM did you go with? How are your temps going and what kind of cooling do you use?

 

9 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

it looks like you won't get those high boost clocks if your motherboard has 'crappy' power delivery. 

That was my concern as well. Your MB seems to be a pretty good one, so this should perfectly do the job. I grabbed the MSI MPG Z690 Carbon as planned. Was a good deal, as i got it for less than 400€ (instead of 450). Now waiting for some more RAM kits to be available.

Cheers

[Elidji]

52 minutes ago, VpR81 said:

That sounds good, thanks for the heads up. Coming from a  6800K, i will hopefull see even more improvement in VR than you did. That 12900K may at least be able to properly feed my GPU then... Just a few questiond. What RAM did you go with? How are your temps going and what kind of cooling do you use?

Cheers

I kept my 32gb of ddr4 and I use an AIO for the cooling (Nzxt z62 I think). 

The temps seem to stay near the 60°C. 

 

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

12 hours ago, Elidji said:

I upgraded from a 8700k to a 12700k and I can tell you that in VR you can feel the difference.

I don't have numbers to prove it but when I went to the Growling World at war server it was WAY smoother !

I also put my my view distance from high to ultra and it works perfectly, I coudn't do that before with the 8700k.

Well that might be placebo effect or maybe your 8700K was at stock clockspeed and because of the clockspeed of your 12 series being higher you might see some lower frametimes. 
Core wise or whatever DCS does not respond to new things. It doesn't even do anything with multi-cores does it ?  

Edited November 7, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[VpR81]

11 hours ago, Elidji said:

I kept my 32gb of ddr4 and I use an AIO for the cooling (Nzxt z62 I think). 

The temps seem to stay near the 60°C. 

Nice, thanks for the response. Temps seem to be pretty good i'd say...

[Harlikwin]

8 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Well that might be placebo effect or maybe your 8700K was at stock clockspeed and because of the clockspeed of your 12 series being higher you might see some lower frametimes. 
Core wise or whatever DCS does not respond to new things. It doesn't even do anything with multi-cores does it ?  

 

 

The IPC on the 12th gen is significantly better than the older gens 28% better than 10th gen at the same clock speed. Not accounting for whatever gains you have in clock speed which intel also suggests the OCing could be very good compared to prior gens ( current record is 8ghz).  Dcs also uses at least 2 cores. 

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/91949-intel-12th-gen-core-cpus-official-performance-preview.html

Edited November 7, 2021 by Harlikwin

[Elidji]

8 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Well that might be placebo effect or maybe your 8700K was at stock clockspeed and because of the clockspeed of your 12 series being higher you might see some lower frametimes. 
Core wise or whatever DCS does not respond to new things. It doesn't even do anything with multi-cores does it ?  

 

I just spent one hour in MP and did a campaign mission in an A10 and I can tell you it's not placebo.

Comparing clockspeed between 2 CPUs with totally different architectures is just wrong.

My 8700k was at 4.9Ghz all cores.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

I'm skeptical but let's hope so.  What is the difference in frame-time ?

Edited November 7, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[jagheterjan]

I'd suggest to take those 8Ghz with a barrel of salt - https://hothardware.com/news/gigabyte-shady-8ghz-alder-lake-overclock-recordban-threat