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Intel 12th gen (Alder Lake) processors: price and benchmarks, and DDR5 memory performance


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On 12/27/2021 at 3:09 PM, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

DDR5 , 32GB , 5600 to 6000 mhz now .... 700 euro's. Ouch 

If you can even find it. 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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I still can't understand why would anyone chose the (scalping) price gouging route, and pay 200%+ on current DDR5 RAM when, for gaming and regular use, it has been widely proven to give about 3% (three percent!) advantage only over DDR4 low latency kits.
It makes no sense.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-12900k-alder-lake-ddr4-vs-ddr5/

https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/ddr4-vs-ddr5-intel-core-i9-12900k-testing/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wQ9MGrTvwc&t=316s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRvo__2taug&t=407s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIN8lLhSqmg&t=1058s


Get a good Z690 DDR4 motherboard and a B-die DDR4 kit of 64GB (4x 16GB) of either 3600 CL16 (16-16-16-36) or 3200 CL14 (14-14-14-34), such as those of GSkill (Flare-X, RipJaws-V and Trident-Z kits available).  It'll work in "Gear 1" mode and will kickass (and save you a considerable ammount of time and money).
That's all you'll need for any Alder Lake "K" CPU and DCS. 


Edited by LucShep
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Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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  • 4 weeks later...

A little late to the party, but for the liberation players out here the 12900k(f) is very much worth it! I tested 11th and 12th gen and the larger campaigns with heavy ai are now stutter free with no culling needed. Previously the game would become heavily cpu bound in those cases sometimes becoming unplayable because of stuttering. 

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On 1/27/2022 at 11:15 PM, nitron said:

A little late to the party, but for the liberation players out here the 12900k(f) is very much worth it! I tested 11th and 12th gen and the larger campaigns with heavy ai are now stutter free with no culling needed. Previously the game would become heavily cpu bound in those cases sometimes becoming unplayable because of stuttering. 

I finally got my rig up and running and in VR it seemed like I was getting a signficant frame rate reduction for CPU frames. Like on a clean mission from like 8ms to 5ms. And framerate wise I was getting like 60-75 on the old rig (9700k), and with the 12900k its often high 80's-90 frame wise on simple missions. 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Does anyone know if it's worth buying a laptop with i7-12700H and 32DDR5 over 11th gen for DCS VR?  I will mostly use this machine for flight sims and don't plan to upgrade for 5 years. 

I'm deciding between 

Quote

 

15.6"

Intel Core i7-12700H processor (3.5 - 4.7GHz)

32GB RAM (4800MHz)

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti 8GB GDDR6

 

vs 

Quote

 

17"

i7-11800H,

32GB (2x 16GB) RAM, 

GeForce RTX 3080

 

The latter is about USD1000 cheaper. 

Thanks!


Edited by Marujet

Modules: F-14A/B | F/A-18C | M2000C | AV-8B | Hawk | L-39 | A-10C | C-101 | UH-1 | Normandy | Supercarrier

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14 hours ago, Marujet said:

Does anyone know if it's worth buying a laptop with i7-12700H and 32DDR5 over 11th gen for DCS VR?  I will mostly use this machine for flight sims and don't plan to upgrade for 5 years. 

I'm deciding between 

vs 

The latter is about USD1000 cheaper. 

Thanks!

You're probably better opening a new thread for your question, as it'll be lost as off-topic in this thread.

In anycase, and even if I'm not an expert with gaming laptops, I'll tell you right away that, graphics wise, the RTX3080-laptop and RTX3070Ti-laptop GPUs perform identicallly (10% or so of difference).

RTX3080 laptop +/- equivalent to RTX3070 desktop.
RTX3070Ti laptop +/- equivalent to RTX3060Ti desktop.

1000$ USD is a lot of money, but you also say that you intend to keep it for the next 5 years.... 
It comes down to CPU, RAM, storage (etc) specs, and also of features of each laptop.
Intel 12th gen is definitely faster than 11th gen, but laptops are a bit diferent when compared to desktops, it may or may not make such a difference for VR.


Edited by LucShep

CGTC Caucasus retexture mod  |  A-10A cockpit retexture mod  |  Shadows reduced impact mod  |  DCS 2.5.6  (the best version for performance, VR or 2D)

DCS terrain modules_July23_27pc_ns.pngDCS aircraft modules_July23_27pc_ns.png  aka Luke Marqs; call sign "Ducko" =

Spoiler

Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 12700K (@5.1/5.0p + 3.9e) | 64GB DDR4 @3466 CL16 (Crucial Ballistix) | RTX 3090 24GB EVGA FTW3 Ultra | 2TB NVMe (MP600 Pro XT) + 500GB SSD (WD Blue) + 3TB HDD (Toshiba P300) + 1TB HDD (WD Blue) | Corsair RMX 850W | Asus Z690 TUF+ D4 | TR PA120SE | Fractal Meshify C | M-Audio USB + Sennheiser HD-599SE | 7x USB 3.0 Hub | 50'' 4K Philips 7608/12 UHD TV (+Head Tracking) | HP Reverb G1 Pro (VR) | TM Warthog + Logitech X56 

 

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2 hours ago, LucShep said:

You're probably better opening a new thread for your question, as it'll be lost as off-topic in this thread.

In anycase, and even if I'm not an expert with gaming laptops, I'll tell you right away that, graphics wise, the RTX3080-laptop and RTX3070Ti-laptop GPUs perform identicallly (10% or so of difference).

RTX3080 laptop +/- equivalent to RTX3070 desktop.
RTX3070Ti laptop +/- equivalent to RTX3060Ti desktop.

1000$ USD is a lot of money, but you also say that you intend to keep it for the next 5 years.... 
It comes down to CPU, RAM, storage (etc) specs, and also of features of each laptop.
Intel 12th gen is definitely faster than 11th gen, but laptops are a bit diferent when compared to desktops, it may or may not make such a difference for VR.

 

Thank you! Yeah the premium is silly high at the moment but if it can push 20% extra framerates in VR I think it'll be worth it as I won't upgrade for a long time. Appreciate the response. 

Modules: F-14A/B | F/A-18C | M2000C | AV-8B | Hawk | L-39 | A-10C | C-101 | UH-1 | Normandy | Supercarrier

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On 2/6/2022 at 12:41 AM, Marujet said:

Does anyone know if it's worth buying a laptop with i7-12700H and 32DDR5 over 11th gen for DCS VR?  I will mostly use this machine for flight sims and don't plan to upgrade for 5 years. 

I'm deciding between 

vs 

The latter is about USD1000 cheaper. 

Thanks!

 

Mostly used for flight sims and you're buying a laptop?

MSI Z690 Edge | 12700k | 64GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 4080 Super | Varjo Aero

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4 hours ago, CptBligh said:

Mostly used for flight sims and you're buying a laptop?

Some folks have to flight sim on the road... 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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13 hours ago, CptBligh said:

Mostly used for flight sims and you're buying a laptop?

Yeah it's silly, but let's just say that space is a premium where I am going and will be moving around + don't want to bother with looking at PC parts for next few years. 

In any case, ended up going with an MSI GP66 11th gen 11800H with a 3080, 32GB ram and 1TB nvme for around $1800. 

Modules: F-14A/B | F/A-18C | M2000C | AV-8B | Hawk | L-39 | A-10C | C-101 | UH-1 | Normandy | Supercarrier

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I was kind of compelled to make a move due to a failing hard drive. I put down $600 on an i5-12400, a B660 motherboard, and a new 2TB SSD. I will keep my old DDR4 (32g at 3600) and for now, I'm stuck with the 2070 Super until prices come down . . . hopefully soon.

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I just went from an i7-8700k to an i7-12700k keeping same DDR4 and sam GPU and i saw almost 0 difference in DCS in VR.

Asus Z370-A | Intel i7 8700K @5.0GHz | Deepcool Maelstrom 120T Red | G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA 1080ti 11GB SC2 | Kingston A2000 250GB NVMe 250GB for Windows 10 64-bit Pro OS, | Samsung 840PRO 120GB SSD & WD HDD 1TB & WD HDD 500GB for program files | 3x LG 24" IPS monitors | Thrustmaster Warthog Stick | Thrustmaster FCS throttle and pedals | HP Reverb Pro, Oculus Rift CV1 (any many more stuff non flight sim related :helpsmilie:)

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5 hours ago, Gregkar said:

I just went from an i7-8700k to an i7-12700k keeping same DDR4 and sam GPU and i saw almost 0 difference in DCS in VR.

Being that you're in VR id assume your GPU is the bottleneck not the CPU.

Modules: F-14A/B | F-15C | F-16C | F/A-18C | SU-33 | Spitfire Mk IX | AH-64D | UH-1 | Super Carrier | Combined Arms | Persian Gulf | Syria | NTTR

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PC: i7 11700K | 64GB G-Skill DDR4 3600MHz | EVGA GeForce RTX 3080Ti FTW3 | DCS dedicated 2TB M.2 NVMe SSD | 3440x1440 144hz 34" ultrawide

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8 hours ago, Gregkar said:

I just went from an i7-8700k to an i7-12700k keeping same DDR4 and sam GPU and i saw almost 0 difference in DCS in VR.

Yeah what GPU?

Cuz I went from a 9700k at 5ghz, to a 12900k at 5.4 and my overall CPU frametimes went down significantly and my framerate went up pretty well. Previously my 3090 was only being utilized like 60-70% and now its a full 100%. 

 

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Am 14.2.2022 um 10:18 schrieb Gregkar:

I just went from an i7-8700k to an i7-12700k keeping same DDR4 and sam GPU and i saw almost 0 difference in DCS in VR.

Sorry to say: Yes, no wonder tbh. I ran a 8700k myself @5G with a 1080ti and it just managed to saturate the GPU to 98-100% all the time.

You won't gain any major fps but smoothen gameplay by throwing in a bigger CPU.

To see more fps, like Harlikwin did, you need a GPU that is not already at ~100% load before you change the CPU.

 

People need to measure/graph their system before they buy parts just to find out it does not bring the desired effect. 

When I switched to a 5900X and double the RAM and 3x NVMe etc..  I did not expect to see 1 more frame but maybe help the bottom end a bit and that turned out to be a realistic assumption without dropping jaws 2k€ later.

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Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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@BitMasterJust to clarify, i wasn't expecting to see any big difference and i didn't upgrade my CPU to run DCS better, i upgraded it to keep up with technology. I just expressed my conclusion after the upgrade. And yes DCS now runs a bit smoother.


Edited by Gregkar

Asus Z370-A | Intel i7 8700K @5.0GHz | Deepcool Maelstrom 120T Red | G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA 1080ti 11GB SC2 | Kingston A2000 250GB NVMe 250GB for Windows 10 64-bit Pro OS, | Samsung 840PRO 120GB SSD & WD HDD 1TB & WD HDD 500GB for program files | 3x LG 24" IPS monitors | Thrustmaster Warthog Stick | Thrustmaster FCS throttle and pedals | HP Reverb Pro, Oculus Rift CV1 (any many more stuff non flight sim related :helpsmilie:)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/22/2022 at 1:58 AM, BitMaster said:

People need to measure/graph their system before they buy parts just to find out it does not bring the desired effect. 

Yes and FPSVR is a good tool for this.  I went from a 9900K to a 12700KF and definitely saw an FPS improvement in scenarios where my GPU was held back by high CPU frametimes.  If you GPU is already taxed 100% (or close), a new CPU will not help much.

In general, if you see CPU frametime same or higher than GPU frametime in FPSVR, then consider upgrading your CPU.  Just make sure that the new CPU has high single thread performance which is the critical factor for DCS.  Alder lake CPUs have the highest single thread performance.

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