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F5 TACAN Malfunction

Droggelkelch

By Droggelkelch
in Bugs and Problems

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Droggelkelch

Droggelkelch

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yesterday I was taking off from Nellis with my Wingman. TACAN was Tuned to LSV (12X) and 029 was selected as course. TACAN was in T/R Mode. After T/O no TACAN indications where present. No Radial, No DME. Same with my Buddy. Switching it off and to T/R did not solve the issue, nor did pressing the Test Button. So I switched to 114X BLD. There was Radial information but it was clearly faulty and also DME was wrong (I was about 30NM  out of BLD but TACAN showd 159NM). A/A TACAN did also not work for me(me 6Y WM 69Y). After reviewing my Track there are no such errors.


Edited by Droggelkelch
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=475FG= Dawger

=475FG= Dawger

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Droggelkelch said:

Yesterday I was taking off from Nellis with my Wingman. TACAN was Tuned to LSV (12X) and 029 was selected as course. TACAN was in T/R Mode. After T/O no TACAN indications where present. No Radial, No DME. Same with my Buddy. Switching it off and to T/R did not solve the issue, nor did pressing the Test Button. So I switched to 114X BLD. There was Radial information but it was clearly faulty and also DME was wrong (I was about 30NM  out of BLD but TACAN showd 159NM). A/A TACAN did also not work for me(me 6Y WM 69Y). After reviewing my Track there are no such errors.

 

We have encountered similar issues with the F5 TACAN

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2alpha-down0

2alpha-down0

Posted
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Confirmed that TACAN is buggier than ever in the F-5.

 

Today I had two instances on Persian Gulf where I had to set the frequency ten below the actual in order to get a signal (99X on the map, 89X set in the cockpit to get a signal).  This seemed to be the case with all TACAN stations.

 

On the second instance, the bug manifested in the middle of the flight, as if the TACAN station changed frequencies.  This was precluded by intermittent ability to change the frequency using the mouse/PointCTRL.

 

My two wingmen could not get their TACAN working at all.

 

My MP tracks are broken due to VoiceAttack use so no track is available.

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Early Cold War Servers

https://discord.gg/VGC7JxJWDS

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dwm

dwm

Posted
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On 11/1/2021 at 9:24 PM, NineLine said:

I need tracks please. Thanks.

I just played around, because i experienced yesterday also strange behavior.

Scenario: Cold startup from Andersen AFB, TACAN 54X

- TACAN takes quite some time after switching it on. Ok, just something to know. Its not "instantaneous" like in other planes, but after waiting ... around 30s i think, then it seems to show the tacan 2 miles from the parking place. Fine.

- When NOT using the mouse scroll wheel, but "click and drag" on the channel button, it seems to come "loose", and is not adjusted to the displayed numbers any more. After this effect, if you scroll fully down it shows an "8" instead of "0". Also, to tune Andersen, you have to set the TACAN to 24X instead 54X. So it simply has an "offset" on the numbers displayed.

Talking about the left button for the "tens".

Well, its an old plane, you know. Very sophisticated simulation of buttons come loose 😉

Track is attached, together with the misson.

CU

 

Edit:
I just reviewed the effect on the track - its NOT shown there. On the track you see me just adjusting the tacan to 54X, which then works. In play, different numbers are shown on the channel display. It's clearly reproducable with a "click and drag" on the channel button.

 

dwm_f5tacan.miz

dwm_f5_tacan3.trk


Edited by dwm
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Inf

Inf

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yup, same here. Just flew the AWACS Hunt F5 mission and TACAN on 44X was spotty the whole way. I think it worked for a few seconds on the return journey but had to cheat on the map to get home.


Edited by Inf
Added TACAN channel
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Inf

Inf

Posted
Posted

Saw someone else's post about how there might be some desync between TACAN knob visuals if you click on the dials vs mousewheeling them, so played the same mission again being careful to only ever mousewheel - and I had reliable TACAN the whole time. So there defs might be something to this!

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zero2005

zero2005

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Posted

Can anyone confirm that TACAN in A/A mode isn't working as far as player->player (ie player controlled F-5 -> F-5), like it should?

Last time me and my buddy both had to set 29Y [which is wrong, in this case one would need to be set to 29Y and the other at 92Y, 63 channels apart] and it was *only* giving distance [which from my days as COM/NAV, is likely also broken/wrong?]

I'd like to mention that, the F-5 modeled has the An/ARN(C)-118, which *should* give both bearing and DME in A/A, unless I'm missing something. The E/F manual I have mentions that it should give both bearing and distance to other similarly equipped aircraft. It was the earlier ARN-64 and ARN-84's that had DME only (except to tankers)

from the manual: (1F-5E-1)
"ARN-118 TACAN is operationally similar to the ARN-84 with the following additional capabilities:"
"Complete navigation information (range and bearing) with an airborne TACAN station."

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=475FG= Dawger

=475FG= Dawger

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, zero2005 said:

Can anyone confirm that TACAN in A/A mode isn't working as far as player->player (ie player controlled F-5 -> F-5), like it should?

Last time me and my buddy both had to set 29Y [which is wrong, in this case one would need to be set to 29Y and the other at 92Y, 63 channels apart] and it was *only* giving distance [which from my days as COM/NAV, is likely also broken/wrong?]

I'd like to mention that, the F-5 modeled has the An/ARN(C)-118, which *should* give both bearing and DME in A/A, unless I'm missing something. The E/F manual I have mentions that it should give both bearing and distance to other similarly equipped aircraft. It was the earlier ARN-64 and ARN-84's that had DME only (except to tankers)

from the manual: (1F-5E-1)
"ARN-118 TACAN is operationally similar to the ARN-84 with the following additional capabilities:"
"Complete navigation information (range and bearing) with an airborne TACAN station."

It (the manual for the F-5) actually says the 118 only provides bearing to specifically equipped cooperating aircraft. Other fighters generally are not so equipped.


Edited by =475FG= Dawger

 

 

 

 

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zero2005

zero2005

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9 hours ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

It (the manual for the F-5) actually says the 118 only provides bearing to specifically equipped cooperating aircraft. Other fighters generally are not so equipped.

 

Yes, the DCS manual says that, but the DCS manual is also not what I'm referencing. What I'm suggesting is that the statement in the manual is potentially incorrect (for example, maybe they're citing the ARN-84 A/A mode instead of the ARN-118) and that the game could also be incorrect.

Lower half of the first image (Tacan system An/ARN-118)
"a. Complete navigation information (range and bearing) with an airborne TACAN station"

and the second image A/A T/R -- "Transmitting and receiving. Provides bearing and range to selected airborne station."

The only reason I could think of is that they would likely not be equipped with a rotating antenna, and I'm not sure when non-rotating "solid state" TACAN antennas became available, however that wouldn't make a ton of sense, as you have both AA REC and AA TR modes, and why bother having to TCTO a new radio if it doesn't offer some capability upgrade?

There's reference to the navy upgrading their ship-based TACAN units to non-rotating antenna in the early to mid 80's, so it wouldn't be too far fetched to see fighters installed with smaller non-rotating assemblies.


See this, cut from the 1F-5E-1 flight manual:
(https://archive.org/details/F5EFFlightManual/page/n101/mode/2up)
118.PNG118-2.PNG

System: Intel 14700k on MSi z690 DDR4 pro, Arctic Liquid Frozer II 360mm AIO, 64gb ddr4-3600mhz CL16, Gigabyte 4090
Winwing Orion2 F-15EX/F-16EX combo, VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV, TM Warthog (Shelved)
2x 256gb Vertex 4 SSD's, 2x 1tb Sabrent NVMe PCIe 4.0 SSD's, 1x 4.0tb Silicon Power NVMe, 1x 4tb Seagate HDD
VR: Quest 3 (Current), HP Reverb G1 (Shelved)

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=475FG= Dawger

=475FG= Dawger

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Posted
3 hours ago, zero2005 said:

Yes, the DCS manual says that, but the DCS manual is also not what I'm referencing. What I'm suggesting is that the statement in the manual is potentially incorrect (for example, maybe they're citing the ARN-84 A/A mode instead of the ARN-118) and that the game could also be incorrect.

Lower half of the first image (Tacan system An/ARN-118)
"a. Complete navigation information (range and bearing) with an airborne TACAN station"

and the second image A/A T/R -- "Transmitting and receiving. Provides bearing and range to selected airborne station."

The only reason I could think of is that they would likely not be equipped with a rotating antenna, and I'm not sure when non-rotating "solid state" TACAN antennas became available, however that wouldn't make a ton of sense, as you have both AA REC and AA TR modes, and why bother having to TCTO a new radio if it doesn't offer some capability upgrade?

There's reference to the navy upgrading their ship-based TACAN units to non-rotating antenna in the early to mid 80's, so it wouldn't be too far fetched to see fighters installed with smaller non-rotating assemblies.


See this, cut from the 1F-5E-1 flight manual:

I did not say I got it from the DCS manual. What I quoted was from the F-5 Technical Order 1F-5E-1-1984.

However, the answer to your question is in your own post.

Quote

with an airborne TACAN station

Another ARN-118 is not an airborne TACAN station. TACAN bearing equipment is generally too large to be installed on a fighter.

 

 

 

 

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