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Kiowa 2021 ? or Next year


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2 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

They are indeed built for different missions. I still fly the Huey even if I love the Mi-24, they just don't have the same role. Just looking at the Apache videos from Wags you can see it is a stand-off, system-heavy helicopter. I don't see why a light recon helo would have no purpose in this regard, and tree-top flying using terrain masking is just a lot of fun in VR. I hope the PC team is doing well and sees this project through ; I look forward to the OH-58 one day in DCS!

Absolutely my thoughts, I will buy this helo instantly.

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Am 30.11.2021 um 23:38 schrieb Baco:

Still the Point is valid, with this long on production, the Kiowa looses appeal. When there were 3 helos, OK, but now you having a limited budget, what are you going to get: the armed recon or the full beast? Besides AI can do recon 😉  Even on the real world there is 2 Kiowa per every 8 Apaches.. so fewer sales. Polichop does not "fix" the Gazelle and does not release the Kiowa when it has been showing off videos for over 2 years... It really makes you wonder...  Some 3rd party developers still see this as a hobby it seems....

What the Huey needs is a Little bird, an AH 06. When the Kiowa entered service the Huey was already obsolete...

I will not deny its Niche value. Every single module in DCS is priceless for some, but then again to make a margin and profit to continue supporting your modules you need to sell. Otherwise you go VEAOs route...If it was out tomorrow i would buy it. But now there are two or three modules I really want to get, so as you can see the more you delay release the more other modules you have to compete with , and I didn´t even buy the Apache or the Hind... I already have 4 helicopters....

Casmo made one of the best points ever, about "choosing a helicopter": "You don't choose the helicopter, you choose the mission"... And that's his real world take on that. 

In my opinion there will be people who will enjoy Anti-Tank, Fulda Gap or CAS missions and others who prefer scouting enemy positions, hands on close up air support and buddy lasing stuff from behind terrain cover.

Or simply put, you're an Apache guy, or a Kiowa guy by heart and the other is just an "alternative". 

Just my two cents.


Edited by shagrat
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Am 20.11.2021 um 23:25 schrieb FoxOne007:

While true, the Kiowa lacks any good reason for the majority of players to get the aircraft when they already own the Apache. The Apache is far more capable in every way. Only the more hardcore Kiowa fans will be getting it (which is a small group in an already small community). Imo Polychop has really shot themselves in the foot with not having this out before the Apache as well as with their “No Multicrew” stance

I sometimes wonder from what secret source these "facts" originate?

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume "That in your/my/some peoples opinion, there may be a larger audience for the Apache", but ultimately I have no idea, as I am making this stuff up, from assumptions and my personal view, with no reliable input to back it up? 😂

Am 21.11.2021 um 02:35 schrieb hanab:

Nope. In all feature, apache is better so why players will buy this kiowa while it is less well ? 
But i am curious to know in which mission, in dcs, kiowa will be better than ah 64 ?

 

Scouting enemy positions, lasing stuff with the MMS without exposing the whole helicopter to enemy fire, just as an example...😉

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2 hours ago, shagrat said:

Casmo made one of the best points ever, about "choosing a helicopter": "You don't choose the helicopter, you choose the mission"... And that's his real world take on that. 

In my opinion there will be people who will enjoy Anti-Tank, Fulda Gap or CAS missions and others who prefer scouting enemy positions, hands on close up air support and buddy lasing stuff from behind terrain cover.

Or simply put, you're an Apache guy, or a Kiowa guy by heart and the other is just an "alternative". 

Just my two cents.

 

Yes definitely, as every aircraft in DCS except for the teen guys LOL.

I understand perfectly. I am a "low tech attack guy" so for me the upcoming G.91 is priceless, but What I can not deny is that there is maybe 20 to 30 "G.91 Guys" out there LOL. So yeah most people are going to get the F 15E, and will not but the G.91 if there is anything else to buy... And we are very, very lucky that the plane si being made at all, since its hardly a good comercial choice. The Kiowa stands in the same category. Very interesting machine with a very small follower base. It did stand a better chance of selling when there weren´t that many choppers out there... 

 

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New update on the Kiowa on eagle dynamics instagram!

Modules I look forward too: BO-105, OH-58, AH-64, BS3, Eurofighter.
Wishlist: Ah-1 (any variant), HH-60 Pavehawk/ UH-60, A-4, AH6, and F-4

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On 3/4/2022 at 12:54 PM, Baco said:

Yes definitely, as every aircraft in DCS except for the teen guys LOL.

I understand perfectly. I am a "low tech attack guy" so for me the upcoming G.91 is priceless, but What I can not deny is that there is maybe 20 to 30 "G.91 Guys" out there LOL. So yeah most people are going to get the F 15E, and will not but the G.91 if there is anything else to buy... And we are very, very lucky that the plane si being made at all, since its hardly a good comercial choice. The Kiowa stands in the same category. Very interesting machine with a very small follower base. It did stand a better chance of selling when there weren´t that many choppers out there... 

 

I would have thought having an Apache module would actually help sell the Kiowa, especially for multiplayer.

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13 hours ago, cordite said:

I would have thought having an Apache module would actually help sell the Kiowa, especially for multiplayer.

 

I've got to think that Casmo inevitably flying a released KW around, explaining the how and why of different systems, maybe designing and showing off a "realistic" mission or two will sell copies.

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vor 18 Stunden schrieb cordite:

I would have thought having an Apache module would actually help sell the Kiowa, especially for multiplayer.

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Tengu:

 

I've got to think that Casmo inevitably flying a released KW around, explaining the how and why of different systems, maybe designing and showing off a "realistic" mission or two will sell copies.

I think nearly everybody who played Janes Longbow 2 will get it. It just belongs to a rotorheads hangar 😁

Also, don't get confused by the silence in this forum. It's just because of PCs decision to stay silent until they are ready (for understandable reasons). Once it is released, there will surely be more than enough buyers.

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I'm more hyped for the 58 than the 64.  The complexity and 2-person crew puts me off the Apache, and the fact that it is effectively a static weapons employment platform means the missions might feel a bit samey.  Hover, bob-up, fire Hellfire, repeat.  Too many MFDs, too many sensors, to much eye clutter.  Don't get me wrong, I have it on pre-order and will fly it, but have no intention of dedicating the countless hours required to master it.  The Kiowa on the other hand will just be awesome fun to throw around, hedge-hopping, armed recce, target spotting, workable with single or multi crew.  I will happily spend 1hr+ just flying the Gazelle in VR for the heli experience (no mission, just low-flying).  If the 58 feels like the Gazelle (in a good way, i.e. nimble and light, not a bit weird around the edges of the envelope) then it will be my go to heli for pretty much everything but heavy lift (nobody can take away my Hip).

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On 3/6/2022 at 7:03 PM, Shark 3-1 said:

New update on the Kiowa on eagle dynamics instagram!

I don't do advertising platforms. What did it say?

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On 3/8/2022 at 9:09 AM, Lace said:

  The Kiowa on the other hand will just be awesome fun to throw around, hedge-hopping, armed recce, target spotting, workable with single or multi crew.  I will happily spend 1hr+ just flying the Gazelle in VR for the heli experience (no mission, just low-flying).  If the 58 feels like the Gazelle (in a good way, i.e. nimble and light, not a bit weird around the edges of the envelope) then it will be my go to heli for pretty much everything but heavy lift (nobody can take away my Hip).

 

I agree, it'll be a different experience from the Apache, and may be as or more fun too!  One of the downsides to the early 1980's Apache is that it's heavy, but the later D Longbow is that it's REALLY HEAVY... it's not nimble at all. It's got a lot of inertia, and yes easy to fly, but it's no "rocket"!

By contrast, the Kiowa probably feels a lot like an A-4 Skyhawk, in that it's very light, very nimble, and despite it's small size, still packs a punch, (albeit nothing like the fire and brimstone from it's partner in battle).

 

Any doom and gloom over Kiowa module sales needs to keep a particular factor in mind: free trial. I think that as people learn to fly fling-wings with the easy Apache flight, and then see that it's a lumbering plodding freight train of Hellfires and cannon shells, may decide to try the Kiowa, and may end up loving it's nimble sportscar handling, it's varied mission taskings, and decide to buy! No, I don't see refunds in the Apache's future, but rather that the Apache sales could significantly boost the Kiowa sales. 

Another factor for the Kiowa module having a brighter future for sales, is that there will be a lot of Apaches to cooperatively target designate for... originally my fear (before the Apache module was announced), that Kiowa sales might be stunted if AI Apaches were poorly implemented and thus not providing the "Hellfire truck" that the Kiowa was meant to cooperate with. But nowdays, with the Apache ready and appearing in store in just weeks or days, and the improvement in AI behaviors... well, despite the Kiowa dev team being rather quiet here, I think they may have their own success after release.

Big sales maybe not on day one or even the first month or two, but as youtube reviews come in, and early adopters make forum reports, as virtual helo squadrons get experience with them, and then people having a good experience with the free trial... I think Kiowa sales might accelerate for a while!


Edited by Rick50
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On 5/6/2022 at 8:39 PM, Nahen said:

🤔🧐:worthy:??

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Set yourself up for 2H of 2023, so whatever comes first is extra 😉 .

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Completely agree with you Rick50. 

Some predicted the death of the 58 with the announcement of the 64, but after flying the 64, even though it is a totally awesome machine, I don't think it took the 58 segment and I and many of the guys in the BSD squadron will swap to the 58 from the 64 in a heartbeat. My hope is that the 58 will offer the amazing sensors of the 64 (minus the FCR) that the Gaz is lacking AND the fun of flying the Gaz that is lacking to the 64. 

I have high hopes that the 58 is coming this year. It would have been a mistake to release it at the same time than the 64, but we are already seeing the 64's buzz calming down a bit and pilots really reconsidering their choices about what they like about flying a chopper. Air Assault and tight hot LZ landing to bring up troops and logistics, hoping from one tree line to another watching progression of enemy convoys or dropping big ammo while sitting out of enemy weapons range? There is even different schools within the AH roles where 24 is preferred for being a more "man" chopper that requires to go in close contact with the enemy when the 64 is preferred by the more systems oriented pilots who enjoy doing some remote hellfire shots while typing MGRS grids in the TSD.

All this to say the 64 is gradually finding its audience but it is not wiping out the competition as we feared at some point. 58 is certainly gonna make a huge buzz too at release. 

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  • 1 month later...

This thread should be renamed to "Kiowa 2022 ? or next year". 😂

 


Edited by Viper1970
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On 7/8/2022 at 12:02 AM, Viper1970 said:

This thread should be renamed to "Kiowa 2022 ? or next year". 😂

 

 

Optimist! 😅

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IMO, this sets a precedent. We understand that issues arose that delayed this module. 
But the lack of communication from PC in 8 months just adds to people's frustration and skepticism.

What these devs seem to fail at grasping, this is not a need. It's a want. And if they don't respect their customers enough to at least keep communication channels flowing (not daily, but at least every couple of months), how do we trust them and invest in their work? 


Edited by ST0RM
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48 minutes ago, adirtynurse said:

They're reminding people almost daily on discord, that its being worked on and announcements are made when they are needed.

Once again though, not all of us are on their Discord. Or Facebook. Or other social media outlets. 
If they cant be bothered to use this forum that was set up for them, then shut it down and remove it. 

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On 7/8/2022 at 1:02 AM, Viper1970 said:

This thread should be renamed to "Kiowa 2022 ? or next year". 😂

 

If I go ahead and rename it..., I am pretty sure I will have to do it again in 5 months.

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