Kiowa 2021 ? or Next year

[hanab]

I think that the kiowa project is over.

AH 64 is better that kiowa, so anyone will buy it. 

[Viper1970]

The AH-64D is not better, it's totally different to the Kiowa and the Kiowa for sure is still a very interesting helicopter module and and fits also perfectly to the Apache. I want both of them and hope that we will see the Kiowa next year.

It would be really nice to get some more official news about this project from Polychop directly here in the ED forum. It's a bit annoying that you have always to search for any news about it at Discord, where you have to churn tons of messages to get some of the relevant ones.

I respect the decision to reserve detailed informations about the exact release or other details, but it would be nice to know if we can expect it at least in 2022. That's what I really would like to know about waiting for one year now.

[Rick50]

 

Whenever the Kiowa is ready, you won't need to be watching this forum every day... you'll see a spike in post activity, you'll see youtube videos showing the launch trailer, you'll see youtubes from DCS based influencers showing off the near-final product, you'll see it pop up in the DCS store, you'll see "OMG Kiowa !!!1!" posts...  

 

... it won't be a secret.

 

I'm frustrated too, I thought it would appear last winter. Ah well, these things take time, moreso on a tiny production budget with just a handful of devs. Just the way it goes....

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Rick50

[FoxOne007]

On 11/19/2021 at 8:38 PM, Viper1970 said:

The AH-64D is not better, it's totally different to the Kiowa and the Kiowa for sure is still a very interesting helicopter module and and fits also perfectly to the Apache. I want both of them and hope that we will see the Kiowa next year.

It would be really nice to get some more official news about this project from Polychop directly here in the ED forum. It's a bit annoying that you have always to search for any news about it at Discord, where you have to churn tons of messages to get some of the relevant ones.

I respect the decision to reserve detailed informations about the exact release or other details, but it would be nice to know if we can expect it at least in 2022. That's what I really would like to know about waiting for one year now.

While true, the Kiowa lacks any good reason for the majority of players to get the aircraft when they already own the Apache. The Apache is far more capable in every way. Only the more hardcore Kiowa fans will be getting it (which is a small group in an already small community). Imo Polychop has really shot themselves in the foot with not having this out before the Apache as well as with their “No Multicrew” stance

[YoYo]

On 11/19/2021 at 4:38 PM, hanab said:

I think that the kiowa project is over.

AH 64 is better that kiowa, so anyone will buy it. 

Does it a joke?

[hanab]

8 hours ago, YoYo said:

Does it a joke?

Nope. In all feature, apache is better so why players will buy this kiowa while it is less well ? 
But i am curious to know in which mission, in dcs, kiowa will be better than ah 64 ?

Edited November 21, 2021 by hanab

[YoYo]

7 hours ago, hanab said:

Nope. In all feature, apache is better so why players will buy this kiowa while it is less well ? 
But i am curious to know in which mission, in dcs, kiowa will be better than ah 64 ?

 

No. Its a joke for me what you wrote. So you can say why someone buys a Spitfire like the F-16C is better, or why buy a A-10C like the F / A-18E is better .... . Really funny.  No, hobbyists and true simmers (not Xbox sim players) don't choose modules based on which is better, it would be really LOL. Anyway, this shows a misunderstanding of the subject at all. Kiowa has a completely different role and complements the operation of Apache on the front. Both helicopters are largely dedicated to other tasks. Kiowa is better in some activities and Apache in some others. Better to think before writing such nonsense. 

Another issue is the release of the module. The Kiowa's Team has a serious problem here, and I'm sure it won't be coming soon, if it's ever released at all. 

[hanab]

spitfire is ww2 plane and f16 is a modern fighter, A10 is CAS role and F18c is multi role (wha can Land on carrier). So you cannot compare them. 
kiowa and apache are two attack modern hélicopter. 

But can you be more precise about different task between this two helo ? You said largely but no exemple….

i will be happy to read this 

Edited November 21, 2021 by hanab

[Sabre_Ewan]

The Kiowa isn't an attack helicopter, it's a scout helicopter. The Kiowa Warrior is an armed scout helicopter.

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, hanab said:

spitfire is ww2 plane and f16 is a modern fighter, A10 is CAS role and F18c is multi role (wha can Land on carrier). So you cannot compare them. 
kiowa and apache are two attack modern hélicopter. 

But can you be more precise about different task between this two helo ? You said largely but no exemple….

i will be happy to read this 

 

Unfortunately you are not right. Since you are based on a specific dutes, you need to know that the Kiowa is not an attack helicopter but a reconnaissance helicopter, often serving as a command for a group consisting of Apache or for conducting reconnaissance at a very low level. All of this could be based on a data link, which I hope will work here with Apache DCS in multiplayer.

DCS is not really War Thunder where we can say one is good over the other, I think you know that and you are starting to get it.

[ST0RM]

The frustration comes from the fact that PC has a forum here and yet doesnt use it. Instead they use Discord or FB. Like so many other 3rd party devs who dont use the official forum boards, for those that dont use their Discord or FB, finding information a year after an imminent release was announced, gets people wondering. 

[Viper1970]

@hanab

The Kiowa is no attack helicopter and never was built to be one! It's a scout and in this application it perfectly fits the Apache. So comparing them makes absoulutely no sense. And every real rotorhead also wants the Kiowa, even there is an Apache available.

It's a totaly different machine and a very interesting one for flying, cause it's not so automatic in terms of the flightmodel like the Apache is. It will be more challenging and agile to fly.

I really want both!

I also dream of having an AH-1F Tow Cobra somewhere in future in DCS and that is for sure also another attack helicopter (the predecessor of the Apache A version in the US Army), but it's also very different to the Apache and even though much less capable, but it's a real flying machine with analog instruments and older systems and this is what in my opinion is also a very interesting aspect of a simulation. You must handle the bird itself and master it's systems regardless if it's top notch or not. It's the fun to control this unique machine and not the incitement to have the most capable one.

[hanab]

I can understand that flight model is very different between apache and kiowa. But, we can fly with uh1, it’s difficult too. 

So if kiowa is only scout/reconnaissance helicopter, it will not very useful in dcs because apache can make reconnaissance and attack mission. 

But i think we will never see kiowa in dcs, so it will be not a problem. 
 

Edited November 21, 2021 by hanab

[FoxOne007]

15 hours ago, YoYo said:

No. Its a joke for me what you wrote. So you can say why someone buys a Spitfire like the F-16C is better, or why buy a A-10C like the F / A-18E is better .... . Really funny.  No, hobbyists and true simmers (not Xbox sim players) don't choose modules based on which is better, it would be really LOL. Anyway, this shows a misunderstanding of the subject at all. Kiowa has a completely different role and complements the operation of Apache on the front. Both helicopters are largely dedicated to other tasks. Kiowa is better in some activities and Apache in some others. Better to think before writing such nonsense. 

Another issue is the release of the module. The Kiowa's Team has a serious problem here, and I'm sure it won't be coming soon, if it's ever released at all. 

The one writing nonsense is you, WWII vs Modern is a completely different thing. Name one mission set the KW does better than the Apache that justifies it for the majority for the of people to be spending another $60+ on a helicopter that is less capable and has no multicrew when they already own the Apache. (We’re not talking about the small group of diehard KW fans here)

[YoYo]

6 hours ago, FoxOne007 said:

The one writing nonsense is you, WWII vs Modern is a completely different thing. Name one mission set the KW does better than the Apache that justifies it for the majority for the of people to be spending another $60+ on a helicopter that is less capable and has no multicrew when they already own the Apache. (We’re not talking about the small group of diehard KW fans here)

What do you not understand? This example is specially used as an extreme example to exaggerate the given comparison. It's so hard to understand? If you don't understand this then unfortunately is not my problem .  Also, do not take the opinion of others, thinking that no one will buy it. This is complete nonsense, I had the MiG-21bis and that means I won't buy the MiG-19 because the new one is worse, its a ridiculous idea, Nobody is forcing you to buy it, if you only want to use Apache it's not mine, but don't write to others that Kiowa will be useless. Another specialist. I will not explain the basics, please find them on the web because I have a limited time. The Kiowa is the previous generation of helicopters, this version will be after upgrade and will work perfectly with Apache, especially since there will be no FCR/Longbow in the beginning. Leave the decision for yourself, but do not write about others. Another thing is that we won't see anything quickly here, the project is almost dead and the only thing that happens is screenshots once in a while.

[stormrider]

On 11/21/2021 at 2:35 AM, hanab said:

Nope. In all feature, apache is better so why players will buy this kiowa while it is less well ? 
But i am curious to know in which mission, in dcs, kiowa will be better than ah 64 ?

 

I'm buying both.

17 hours ago, ST0RM said:

The frustration comes from the fact that PC has a forum here and yet doesnt use it. Instead they use Discord or FB. Like so many other 3rd party devs who dont use the official forum boards, for those that dont use their Discord or FB, finding information a year after an imminent release was announced, gets people wondering. 

Given how toxic this forum is, I don't really blame them.

Edited November 22, 2021 by stormridersp

[ST0RM]

6 hours ago, stormridersp said:

Given how toxic this forum is, I don't really blame them.

Ahh yes, the toxic label. This whole sim is toxic then. 
Only because people want to know whats going on? They hyped the Kiowa in 2020, stating it was soon to be released. Videos and live chats. Then they missed their own deadline and said it needed more work. I can't recall which Qtr they were then aiming for, but its at the END of 2021 and not a peep from them. So the excitement they created leads to disappointment. Hmmm
This is the official forum. If they dont want to use it, remove it. Potential customers shouldnt have to hunt for info. 

[Nahen]

Since the F-15E is better at everything than the F-16C, it means that while RAZBAM releases the F-15E, the ED should remove the F-16C as a module ...

If someone writes that AH-64 is better than OH-58 in the reality of DCS, I do not understand why there is such a Mirage, AV-8B, A-10 ?? After all, everything that these planes do can be done with the F-16, F / A-18 faster, from a greater distance, safer and not yet get shot down ...

Why in the DCS Spitfire, P-47, P-51D, BF-109, FW-190? After all, it would be enough for the P-47 to do exactly the same as the rest ...

And more seriously - if the creators of OH-58D assumed that they were making a module for cooperation with AH-64, they shot themselves in the knee. If they assumed that they are making a module that is to enable cooperation with UH-1, A-10, AH-64, F-16C, F-15E (in the future), then they have the only correct vision and can make the most useful module for today in DCS . Why? Because each of these modules has a problem with hitting a target covered with clouds and fog. And sending an attack helicopter to be "flashlights" for high-speed attack aircraft is stupid and unnecessary use of force - and basically a waste of his potential. I will not buy AH-64 - but I am waiting for Kiowa.
Whereas UH-1 in tandem with OH-58 will finally be able to "see" threats and defend itself effectively - defending does not mean fighting.

[Baco]

Still the Point is valid, with this long on production, the Kiowa looses appeal. When there were 3 helos, OK, but now you having a limited budget, what are you going to get: the armed recon or the full beast? Besides AI can do recon   Even on the real world there is 2 Kiowa per every 8 Apaches.. so fewer sales. Polichop does not "fix" the Gazelle and does not release the Kiowa when it has been showing off videos for over 2 years... It really makes you wonder...  Some 3rd party developers still see this as a hobby it seems....

What the Huey needs is a Little bird, an AH 06. When the Kiowa entered service the Huey was already obsolete...

I will not deny its Niche value. Every single module in DCS is priceless for some, but then again to make a margin and profit to continue supporting your modules you need to sell. Otherwise you go VEAOs route...If it was out tomorrow i would buy it. But now there are two or three modules I really want to get, so as you can see the more you delay release the more other modules you have to compete with , and I didn´t even buy the Apache or the Hind... I already have 4 helicopters....

[BaD CrC]

On 11/21/2021 at 9:30 AM, ST0RM said:

The frustration comes from the fact that PC has a forum here and yet doesnt use it. Instead they use Discord or FB. Like so many other 3rd party devs who dont use the official forum boards, for those that dont use their Discord or FB, finding information a year after an imminent release was announced, gets people wondering. 

Considering the amount of complete ignorance about RW I can read on this thread only, I can't blame PC for avoiding this entire forum. 

[LooseSeal]

I'm not personally interested in the Kiowa, but as it doesn't seem to have been mentioned on the forum yet, I'll put it here for anyone who's interested.

Casmo appears to demonstrate/tease the Kiowa at a couple of points in this video.

The project certainly seems very much alive - which is great news for variety of modules in DCS.

[S. Low]

Some people have awful takes on the Kiowa. I’m buying it regardless of features and Apache comparisons because I’m interested in combat aviation, especially helos. 

Attributing multiplayer balance and viability to a product intent on bringing realistic simulation to popular and historic aircraft? Derp.

[corbu1]

I‘m eagerly awaiting the Kiowa and I will buy it. Helos are my passion in flightsimming.

[Hobel]

Kiowa and Apache can complement each other perfectly,And I am really looking forward to the interaction.

[Qiou87]

13 hours ago, Hobel said:

Kiowa and Apache can complement each other perfectly,And I am really looking forward to the interaction.

They are indeed built for different missions. I still fly the Huey even if I love the Mi-24, they just don't have the same role. Just looking at the Apache videos from Wags you can see it is a stand-off, system-heavy helicopter. I don't see why a light recon helo would have no purpose in this regard, and tree-top flying using terrain masking is just a lot of fun in VR. I hope the PC team is doing well and sees this project through ; I look forward to the OH-58 one day in DCS!