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Kiowa 2021 ? or Next year


fapador

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It´s curious how things can go wrong... I remember some videos where the Kiowa was seen. In fact, an imminent release after the Apache was thought, right?

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At this point it's almost as if they somehow lost all of the project files and they had to redo the kiowa from scratch. This does look that way to me because something that was initially going to release at the end of 2020 and instead everything went quiet for well over a year is concerning to say the least.

On the other hand, I am also wondering how the gazelle FM rework is coming along, still no news about it for a long time.

Hope polychop isn't silently going bankrupt.

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Full fidelity su27/mig29 ?

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On 7/21/2022 at 7:31 AM, notproplayer3 said:

At this point it's almost as if they somehow lost all of the project files and they had to redo the kiowa from scratch. 

 

That's happened before. I think that actually happened to a helo sim project that was gonna have... Apache and Chinook I think? And the main guy's hard drive crashed hard. I think he tried to salvage and recover, but the project seemed to die, or be quietly abandoned months or years later.

 

 

On 7/21/2022 at 7:31 AM, notproplayer3 said:

On the other hand, I am also wondering how the gazelle FM rework is coming along, still no news about it for a long time.

 

I thought the Gaz wasn't gonna be touched until the Kiowa was actually finished/released, then they would go back and tackle the Gaz flight dynamics now knowing more about simulating helos? So there wouldn't be any news until well after the Kiowa was in our grubby little paws.

 

On 7/21/2022 at 7:31 AM, notproplayer3 said:

Hope polychop isn't silently going bankrupt.

Well, me too. 

But I don't think this is a shop with 18+ programmers toiling away full time employment. It's more likely this is their "side gig", their weekend and weeknight investment, separate from their "day job". Meaning not full time simulation experts, but committed dedicated hobbyists putting in lots of efforts, unpaid, with the hopes of eventually getting some pay back in sales. Less multinational conglomerate, more cottage industry.

If that's the case, it's probably not "going bankrupt", but it might be costing someone their relationship with their wife, or their kids, the time demands may not be doable after a major "day job" shift in workplace schedules and responsibilities. 

 

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18 hours ago, nukeproof said:

If that's the case then there's something wrong with ED business model accepting "modders" as business partners. Remember that it's not only about developing and selling a product here, but also, not less important, about sustaining it.

 

I don't agree. I think you are VASTLY overestimating the amount of money involved in these hardcore simulations.  Even industry giants in flight simulations are small compared to big tech, simulation companies are tiny slivers, while the EA's and Ubi's are giants who don't know what their various divisions are all up to. 

Calling people "modders" who are developing a precision product meant to meet ED and Nick's extremely high and exacting standards, is to dismiss them. And that's simply wrong.  "Modders" can describe everything from the devs who made the A-4 or the UH-60, down to the guy who made a B-2 "flyable" with a million pounds of thrust, over Mach 3 flight, and everything in between.

What matters not is how the project is funded, nor whether the devs are part time devs or full time employees, or contractors, subcontractors or consultants. What matters is the quality of the product, the price they offer it at, how responsive they are to patchs and bug fixes, whether it gives a real feeling of the real aircraft represented. 

In future, yes, maybe module makers for DCS and aircraft addons for civilian sims might be able to have hundreds of full  time employees developing from 9am to 5pm, 5 days a week year round for decades... but that is a ways off. The closest might be ED itself, Asobo and a few others... but companies developing one aircraft at a time as addons? Not from what I've seen. And even past success is no guarantee of future releases, no matter how many videos, screens and discord postings are put out. 

ED is in fact doing as you say, developing modders into business partners. That IS the way forward. No one's thinking "hey, I've got 10 million dollars waiting for the right opportunity, I'm gonna develop a DCS module for the Blackbird, and I'll hire 20 coders experienced with DCS and I'll pay them enough to pay their mortgages, healthcare, feed their children and car purchases for years!!" Most people out in the real world have never even heard of DCS, barely even aware that you can simulate flight and combat on home computers... they're too engrossed in whatever reality show or sports series is being talked about at work. This entire genre of combat flight simulation is a niche within a niche inside of the giant world of electronic entertainment. And there's nothing wrong with that. But no one's becoming billionaires in this corner. 

Edit:

Another thing: I'd rather that dedicated people looking to make quality product, be doing DCS modules, than people just collecting a paycheck. It's my belief that people making product for DCS, whether they are 3rd party devs, ED employees and subcontractors, or even free mod developers, are generally all on the same page: make the best that you can make, for an audience with high expectations. Even the free modder who made the AI B-2 Spirit model able to fly, was probably trying their best, experimenting with the code, unaware that the performance was, um..."wildly optimistic". That person may have learned a lot since that mod, and might end up on a team making a truly amazing full paid full realistic module. People evolve, try more difficult things, learn as they go, raise their own bar of expectations. 

 


Edited by Rick50
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  • 3 weeks later...

Unfortunately this whole program is a part time gig. 
Within ED, they have larger (mil/gov) contracts that take priority over the commercial side. So DCS gets attention as it's available. Regular, but not non-stop.
Same with most 3rd party devs. They either do the work in conjunction with their normal job, or after hours/weekends. 
It's not ideal for the consumer, as we expect the bugs to be fixed ASAP and progress. But it's just not a high paying, continuous job. They upfront the dev costs, hoping for sales to repay that. 

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2 hours ago, fapador said:

Well, I won't be buying Kiowa because I am offended as a customer from the previous purchase. Ain't gonna reward them with my money... 

I'll buy two.

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1 hour ago, Gizmo03 said:

So… what are we going to do with our 4 Kiowas? 😉

Show the Apache drivers how it's done. 😅

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On 8/9/2022 at 2:02 PM, Lace said:

I'll buy two.

Buy 202. Don't care mate. 

Polychop is unprofessional and nothing ain't gonna change that for me. 

The damage is done.


Edited by fapador
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Obsessed with FM's

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On 7/23/2022 at 2:09 AM, nukeproof said:

If that's the case then there's something wrong with ED business model accepting "modders" as business partners. Remember that it's not only about developing and selling a product here, but also, not less important, about sustaining it.

That is why, after the VEAO debacle, parties are required to submit source code to ED, so they always have the ability to maintain something. Otherwise, it is irrelevant if the Kiowa sees the light of day as they have not collected preorder funds for it, ergo we're owed nothing.

 

Projects start and fail all across the industry every day, that's life. That said, I doubt Polychop is 'dead'.

On 8/10/2022 at 6:04 AM, fapador said:

Buy 202. Don't care mate. 

Polychop is unprofessional and nothing ain't gonna change that for me. 

The damage is done.

 

  *eyeroll*

Some of you just thrive on drama.

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Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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You're exaggerating, gentlemen ... compare the date of Kiowa's announcement with the date of the F-15E announcement ...

How many years has it been? How many years of silence and crying were there during that time - "did the F-15E wil die?" I dont think so...

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  • ED Team

The OP has given his feedback and wont be buying. 

Please continue to be patient when the team have news to share they will share it. 

thanks

 

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