correct as-is Feathering not properly working

[WolfhoundCH]

First test (no trackfile available): Coldstart aircraft, takeoff, gear up, then:
- Throttle starboard engine: Idle
- RPM starboard engine: Fully back
- Feathering: Push

Nothing happened, the engine didn't fully feather, and the feathering pushbutton stuck pushed in, couldn't pull it out again (as stated in the manual).

Second test (Trackfile attached): Instant action "Free Flight" Channel
- Throttle starboard engine: Idle
- RPM starboard engine: Fully back
- Starboard Feathering Pushbutton: Push
- When engine stopped: starboard fuel cock: Off, starboard magnetos: Off
Step I forgot: starboard radiator was kept open.


Now the prop feathered properly, the engine stopped, all perfect.
Until after a while, the engine started windmilling again at relatively high RPM, thus producing too much drag, so I had to get fuel and magnetos back on.

Trackfile:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c427g56ZAtA7yIzj3hPTzS05CXFuaOVV/view?usp=sharing

Edited September 19, 2021 by Eteokles

[NineLine]

I'll check, thanks.

[iFoxRomeo]

Works fine for me. You have to push and hold the button for a few seconds. And switch off the magnetos before you feather the prop, as the engine is still running. The procedure in the flight manual-emergencies describes the feathering once the engine failed, so you need to shut it down for simulated failure.

You don't feather a working engine, do you?

 

Fox

[NineLine]

No I believe you are correct, you cannot feather a running engine.

 

I checked with Nick, this is how they practice, so you can feather an engine, you just need to make sure the throttle and RPM are all the way back as not to kill the engine. I will investigate the track.

[Art-J]

Since I don't have separate joystick axes for RPMs, I've just tried if feathering works just with magnetos off and throttles back to minimum (leaving RPMs, fuel and whatnot as they were).

 

It seemed to work OK that way for both engines; unfeathering too (though it took a while for the windmilling engines to catch again).

 

 

[iFoxRomeo]

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

No I believe you are correct, you cannot feather a running engine.

 

I checked with Nick, this is how they practice, so you can feather an engine, you just need to make sure the throttle and RPM are all the way back as not to kill the engine. I will investigate the track.

Interesting. So I tried it with mags on. Throttle back, rpm back, feather button pressed and the engine stops. Then mags off. After a while mags on and feathering button pressed till at least 400 rpm and the engine is back on. Works with port and starboard engine. I didn't switch off the fuel for comfort reasons, VR.

 

Fox

[NineLine]

Yeah I tried based on the manuals steps, and had no issues here, engine feathered as expected, never spun up until I unfeathered. 

 

Nick did comment that a steep dive may get the prop spinning again when unwanted. 

[MarcT-NL]

Hmmm.... yesterday in MP/Multicrew, the (right) engine kept turning. Throttle was back, RPM was not back, mags were off, fuel was off and feather was pressed. The prop kept turning.

No trackfile or so. Just saying that there might be something bugged still, even if this topic is labeled "correct as is".

I will do some more testing if you don't mind and provide a track if I find anything.

[Reflected]

Interesting, the manual does not mention ’rpm fully back’. I guess it’s only for simulated failures to go easy on the engine?

[grafspee]

I would never turn off mags while fuel distribution to the engine is still on. I would leave mags on and i would cut out fuel only.

[Reflected]

26 minutes ago, grafspee said:

I would never turn off mags while fuel distribution to the engine is still on. I would leave mags on and i would cut out fuel only.

Yes this is what the manual says too.  What’s the reason behind this?

 

also, what other failures can lead to the failure of the feathering system? Fire? Oil leak?

[MarcT-NL]

I would imagine, with the mags off and the fuel stil flowing, there could be a dangerous amount of unburned fuel accumulating in the engine/carbs somewhere.

I thought that the featheringsystem is electrical. You can see it working on the ground, with the engines turned off.

[grafspee]

25 minutes ago, Reflected said:

Yes this is what the manual says too.  What’s the reason behind this?

 

also, what other failures can lead to the failure of the feathering system? Fire? Oil leak?

Reason behind it is, when you shut off magnetos only, fuel will still end up in combustion chamber but with no spark it wont be combusted, fuel will be ejected through exhaust, it will be sprayed all over your plane making very high risk of fire. It can lead to unwanted oil dilution as well.

Edited September 20, 2021 by grafspee

[Reflected]

Ahaa makes sense. Thanks so much!

[Nealius]

Fuel off for selected engine, and the cutoff buttons, don't yet work do they? I can only shut off engines by killing the mags or by closing the master fuel cock.

[Terry Dactil]

If you map the  fuel cutoff thingies to the unused Warthog throttle idle/cutoff switches you can operate them from the comfort of the pilot's seat.

Avoids the hassle of changing seats and the contortions normally required. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Terry Dactil

[Nealius]

The cutoff switches don't appear to do anything yet.

[WolfhoundCH]

On 9/20/2021 at 12:05 AM, NineLine said:

Yeah I tried based on the manuals steps, and had no issues here, engine feathered as expected, never spun up until I unfeathered. 

 

Nick did comment that a steep dive may get the prop spinning again when unwanted. 

Ok, thanks. I'll test some more.

[Cowboy10uk]

SP works fine, I can feather on and off to my hearts content.   MP however,it won’t feather for love nor money, engine also continues to run no issues despite fuel cut off pulled. 

[iFoxRomeo]

On 9/21/2021 at 3:26 AM, Nealius said:

The cutoff switches don't appear to do anything yet.

Affirm. They don't work. The engine(s) cough but continue to work when the cutoff is pulled. 

 

I put the feathering button on the Warthog Throttle idle/cutoff switches. That way I can access them quickly if necessary and am sure to reduce throttle to zero before activating the mechanism. But the throttles have to be put back to idle after activation so that the buttons are not pushed permanently, as it would unfeather the props again. 

Interestingly I have NO problems feathering the props in MP and SP... Will re-check it later.

 

Fox

[Terry Dactil]

The fuel cut-offs work now. They were fixed in the latest update.

For me it is now just:

• Throttle back into cut-off
• Press feather button

Engine feathered. That's it!

[Nealius]

What do you mean by throttle back "into cut-off?" The cut-offs should be the plungers by the fuel control switches behind the seat.

[Terry Dactil]

21 minutes ago, Nealius said:

What do you mean by throttle back "into cut-off?" The cut-offs should be the plungers by the fuel control switches behind the seat.

Yep. And they are very awkward to see and operate, so I have mapped them to the Warthog throttle Idle/cutoff switches.

It ties in nicely with the way I was trained to handle engine failures on multi-engined aircraft:

First thing to do is to close the throttle or thrust lever.

If the aircraft yaws you picked the wrong one ! 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Terry Dactil

[Schwarzfeld]

@Terry Dactil I have my engine fuel cutoffs mapped to detents on my Virpil throttle as well for the same functionality; I am still seeing this weird feathering behavior, from what I read in this thread, it looks like what I'm hearing is that I'm supposed to be flipping the mags off prior to actually shutting the engine down fully, which in reality on a piston engine is a massive no-no, so I don't understand why ED would model it that way. Proper order of operations in piston engine shutdown and feathering is power back (closed throttle), RPM back full close, feather prop, fuel shutoff, mags off when prop stops spinning appreciably.

If mags are flipped off while fuel is still being fed to the motor (and its still turning) you're just flooding the thing and depending on how much fuel is getting fed, you're potentially damaging it as well, not to mention creating an insta-fireball-explodo-motor (potentially) if you are intending to fire it back up.... so... I'm confused.

To get my engines to feather correctly under any circumstances, following proper procedure, I have to physically... very nearly stall the airplane to allow the prop RPM to fall low enough for the feathering system to turn the prop fully and THEN it feathers and holds still. 

[SMH]

I thought there was an issue too until I realized I didn't have to hold the button down the whole time it's feathering.