Throttle/Collective BASE lube

[Apar]

Hi guys, anybody here with a throttle base that has stiction? How did you fix yours and make smooth while at the same time be able to still tighten the dampener?

[Vullcan]

Guess not enough people have the collective yet Apar, what have your findings been since you posted? 

 

Do you just crank down on it hard enough so it doesn't fall down on its own / if you accidently tap it? How bad is the stiction once its that tight? I cant imagine they thought people would use it so loose that it didn't stay up on its own?

 

Or did they only really test it without the extension and then added the extension as an after thought?  

[Apar]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:39 AM, Vullcan said:

Guess not enough people have the collective yet Apar, what have your findings been since you posted? 

 

Do you just crank down on it hard enough so it doesn't fall down on its own / if you accidently tap it? How bad is the stiction once its that tight? I cant imagine they thought people would use it so loose that it didn't stay up on its own?

 

Or did they only really test it without the extension and then added the extension as an after thought?  

Yeah you are right I guess not much have it yet or just holding out the review. I think I ordered during the Third run since it was out of stock when I first went to look for it. Anyways there is a GR review already but of course they are sponsored by WW so they would pretty much be biased I guess..

 

Im also holding-out for a review of it, but on the lazy side and I havent mounted it yet. The Chair mount plate it comes with is not compatible with my chair since my change has 4*m8 screws while WW mount is 3*m6. I did some conversion plate with quick release but the local prices for custom CNC Alu was too expensive (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iz5xbys2p_jL6qX79eaCDYzGjcr2uiFV/view?usp=sharing) so I scrapped the idea. I would chair mount it only if it can be easy detachable to my chair for quick storage when not in use. So I decided to just do a separate mounting using V-slot Alu profile (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fwMCBbtst-i18qPqQvXqzNhCHtXm8IV0/view?usp=sharing) which doubles as a storage for the collective and I love Alu profiles benefit of it is its totally reusable and modifiable in case I plan to change my setup.

I havent really flown with the collective yet but in terms of build quality I dont really have complains its all metal and feels like It could handle abuse. Mine has the extension and with the Grip & button box being all metal it does contribute in it having to fall down on its own and out of the box with zero adjustment it falls by itself. I havent crank down on it I did a few turns and it holds its own weight now but it kinda has a bit of stiction im pretty sure its not smoth. But since the base is dual(similar to a 2 engine throttle) I probably could play around with using only one of the dampeners or maybe add some lube, thus this post. Im looking for anybody who has tried applying lube on any of their WW Throttle base. 

[ExoticTrout]

I spent a few weeks monkeying with the throttle tension setscrews before I got it right. Right for me, anyway....  My concern with adding lube is that I don't know what effect it will have with the setscrew tension system.  It may also be a real pain to try and clean out if it turns out poorly...   

[TellerJohn]

I've had the Winwing collective with full extension for a few months now. Although I have adjusted the tension screws close to my ideal there is still slight stiction with fine movements. Thinking of trying https://www.oveready.com/flashlight/nyogel-767aa-damping-grease-10g-tube/.

Expensive dampener grease and not sure of exact point to apply to. I reached out to winwing and their response was: 

Very sorry we have not test any damping grease yet, but I think you can have a try.

 

Otherwise love this collective, with minor stiction.

[MustangSally]

My collective will arrive Mon or Tues next week. The first thing I'm going to do is apply a small smear of Nyogel to the dampener.

[TellerJohn]

..and "dampener" refers to what part specifically? Got a diagram breakdown?

 

[MustangSally]

46 minutes ago, TellerJohn said:

..and "dampener" refers to what part specifically? Got a diagram breakdown?

 

I'll get some internal pics when mine arrives

[Apar]

On 10/14/2021 at 11:51 PM, TellerJohn said:

I've had the Winwing collective with full extension for a few months now. Although I have adjusted the tension screws close to my ideal there is still slight stiction with fine movements. Thinking of trying https://www.oveready.com/flashlight/nyogel-767aa-damping-grease-10g-tube/.

Expensive dampener grease and not sure of exact point to apply to. I reached out to winwing and their response was: 

Very sorry we have not test any damping grease yet, but I think you can have a try.

 

Otherwise love this collective, with minor stiction.

I see you mounted on a short table. I am exactly doing the same thing with 2020 v-slots since my chair is not compatible with the mount. 

For the stiction, yes it does it and am actually planning to loosen the damper and just use a hydraulic one. Got the damper(https://imgur.com/a/L8wcvfB) just waiting for the correct bolts and aluminum profiles to get going. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Apar

[TellerJohn]

@AparAh very interesting workaround. Where did you get the mechanical dampener? Will be curious to see it in action, pics.

 

[Apar]

1 hour ago, TellerJohn said:

@AparAh very interesting workaround. Where did you get the mechanical dampener? Will be curious to see it in action, pics.

 

Its a handlebar steering dampener i got in a bicycle shop.. It should work like a normal collective. I think.

 

[Draken35]

1 hour ago, Apar said:

Its a handlebar steering dampener i got in a bicycle shop.. It should work like a normal collective. I think.

 

That's a very interesting idea...Could you post picts and review when you get it working please? I've been playing with counter weights to improve the feeling but your idea looks better

[TellerJohn]

16 hours ago, Apar said:

For the stiction, yes it does it and am actually planning to loosed the damper and just use a hydraulic one. Got the damper

In your photo, what are the 2 additional brackets (black and silver) attached to the end of your collective.....located near the original billeted bracket that came with the collective?

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by TellerJohn

[Buzzer1977]

On 9/19/2021 at 7:28 PM, Apar said:

Hi guys, anybody here with a throttle base that has stiction? How did you fix yours and make smooth while at the same time be able to still tighten the dampener?

Adjust tension screws and silicone lube.

[TellerJohn]

13 hours ago, Buzzer1977 said:

Adjust tension screws and silicone lube.

This is obvious...where exactly did you apply the grease. pics?

[Buzzer1977]

1 hour ago, TellerJohn said:

This is obvious...where exactly did you apply the grease. pics?

Not gonna open my Hotas for pics, but i put it on the rods all around with a tooth stick. It doesn't need much. 

[TellerJohn]

8 minutes ago, Buzzer1977 said:

Not gonna open my Hotas for pics, but i put it on the rods all around with a tooth stick. It doesn't need much. 

This thread is about the winwing collective not a HOTAS

[Buzzer1977]

1 minute ago, TellerJohn said:

This thread is about the winwing collective not a HOTAS

Jeez ... You don't have to be a Nobel price winner to do the intellectual transfer function ...

[TellerJohn]

good point, I'll check the grease points on my rolling garage door and extrapolate a solution from there I get your point  and appreciate your offering assistance but I was asking for very specific info on a specific device because Collective devices are very new on the market and there is no as yet info (pics/video) on stiction solutions.

3 minutes ago, TellerJohn said:

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by TellerJohn

[Apar]

16 hours ago, TellerJohn said:

In your photo, what are the 2 additional brackets (black and silver) attached to the end of your collective.....located near the original billeted bracket that came with the collective?

 

 

I was looking for the correct bracket got them two. Two different bar size and two different screw size.. I like the silver but it has smaller m5 screw the damper has m8 so im off looking for some spacers. Its a bit hard to get simple parts here. Have to order bulk from china and takes 30 days jeezz. Not a single walk-in store has these.

16 hours ago, Buzzer1977 said:

Adjust tension screws and silicone lube.

I gave up on the tension adjustment and lube.. ill go for the damper route.

[TellerJohn]

Found this on Amazon, but I still need the pivoting ball joint brackets for each connection point. Will hold out for now as I have Nyogel grease on the way.

 

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07MQ9MYCV/?coliid=I2SNILEJQGXH4P&colid=1H1TAGJQ3AMNV&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

[MustangSally]

Just put a thin smear of Nyogel on my collective base friction dampers.....absolutely nil sticktion.

[Apar]

Ok guys, I cant hold up any longer for some of the right screw type(allen) and screw length to come in(coz im OCD'ed). I went for what ever I could find, thankfully the alu spacers M5xM8 came in already. My alu profiles for where I would be mounting it also haven't arrived so forgive me for the video of me struggling to keep it in place.

Thoughts after soft test.

The damper is doing great having it not yet hard mounted it reacts really nice. At this point I already have the Winwing Base damper set to loosest setting. The tension or fluid tension or hydraulic pressure or what ever you call that has Knob adjustment and is pretty helpful and easy to dial-in with only a few twists of the knob as to compared to the two small pinhole at the base to adjust the screws of the damper with an Allen wrench there are two of them and one is directly below the collective shaft so if your using an Allen driver with a fat grip it would be tricky.

In this Clip you will see me using the softest setting and the Grip + extension is heavy  enough and leveraged enough from its pivot point to fall by itself(will be more pronounced when hard mounted). I takes me 8 Turns(with a satisfying click) to get to the dampening I like for the current grip and it goes up to 25 turns, this is actually a great feature to have knowing that some are already designing their collective grips for the coming AH-64D its good to have more headroom for heavier grips which I think the current WW base dampener would struggle would keep in place and would easily have wear and tear, the same goes for the Virpil collective. 

So yeah I think its great having this hydraulic dampener I might get another one for my Center stick like the one I saw in another post here. And I am ready for a heavier grip Wingwing come ang get me that Metal AH-64D grip! 

 

 

@Draken35 

@TellerJohn Stiction solution right here no need to fight over it with Mr Buzz. Lets all be friends we are here for the same reasons anyway.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Apar

[Draken35]

@Apar

That looks fantastic!

Would you mind posting a parts list and where did you get them? For the bracket and the spacers at least please ?

[Apar]

1 hour ago, Draken35 said:

@Apar

That looks fantastic!

Would you mind posting a parts list and where did you get them? For the bracket and the spacers at least please ?

Here you go.

winwing collecting damper mod.pdf